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The only chord which sticks out is B7 which should be Bmin7 to fit Em melodic scale. Unless that part alone is in Em harmonic
Thanks
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11-04-2017 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by fafnir
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Autumn Leaves is in Em, IMO, because the song eventually winds its way around to Em at the end, and each of the B sections end in Em.
Also the melody is primarily written in the E minor mode:
Natural minor is identical to G major except for starting note
E F# G A B C D E
But we see the C# and D# (raised 6 and 7) which are typical of the minor key - in particular
Like Beautiful Love, Autumn Leaves is a melody written almost entirely in the classical melodic minor (1 2 b3 4 5 6 7 1 b7 b6 5 4 b3 2 1)
The song ends on the note E, most tunes end on the tonic (I) of whatever key the song is in.
Melody is often a better guide than harmony... Changes may change, but the melody IS the song.
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Originally Posted by fafnir
Likewise, natural natural minor is modal, and is mostly used in a theoretical way, as a term of disambiguation with the other two minors, and for comparing its relationship to its relative Major Key. In the literal functional sense, as a stand-alone entity, "natural minor" is really aeolian, and not really "minor", but modal.
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Originally Posted by christianm77
(sarcasm not aimed at you Christian by the way!)
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I think it's in whatever key you play it in :-)
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Originally Posted by ragman1
Also, what is the difference, if any, between the harmonic analysis and the roman numeral analysis?
Originally Posted by christianm77
To me it doesn't seem that the melody changes between Em and G, but that since the tones are the same anyway it's kinda moot in this case... are there songs which use 215 in two scales which are not relative to each other? Would be interesting to see what happens with melody there.
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Originally Posted by der_jk
What comes first? The chord progression or the melody? Again, sincere question... did the composer first write the melody and then found the chords which work, or the other way around?
To me it doesn't seem that the melody changes between Em and G
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Originally Posted by der_jk
Well for me the Roman Numeral thing falls under the category of 'stamp collecting' rather than 'physics' - there are a number of patterns that you'll see over and over again. Take note of these patterns and develop ways of playing through them. Makes it easier to learn lots of tunes as well.
Maybe looking at multiple charts you can see that some patterns seem interchangeable with others. For instance IV IVm I rather than IV bVII7 I. You start to develop a repertoire of chord subsitutions.
It's pretty natural actually. Unless you are totally fucking dense, you will start noticing this stuff. The point of using the numerals is that it makes it easier to compare different keys. Alternatively you could transpose everything to C major. Same difference.
Physics - well take your pick. TBH, I'm not sure how important the underlying reason why a II-V-I works are that important to playing music...
But, I like the static chord - passing dissonance - static chord model. There are a few other general principles I like too - efficient cadences containing lots resolutions by half step going up and down against each other, and so on, because I find this actual useful for understanding progressions and lines.
But Why itself is (for me) a question for theorists not musicians.
What comes first? The chord progression or the melody? Again, sincere question... did the composer first write the melody and then found the chords which work, or the other way around?
In more modern stuff the melody is often subsidary to the chords... Part of the reason why standards are more flexible and an endless resource, perhaps... And guitarists think in chords.
Songwriters on guitar often write chords first, melody second, and jazz guitarists are no exception.
To me it doesn't seem that the melody changes between Em and G, but that since the tones are the same anyway it's kinda moot in this case... are there songs which use 215 in two scales which are not relative to each other? Would be interesting to see what happens with melody there.
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It is worth mentioning that Cork and Elliot call a ii V I IV progression an "overrun." The idea is that even though it arrived at the I it kept going down another fifth. I don't use the whole Lego system but I like the terms that are so catchy I don't have to work to remember them.
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Originally Posted by Binyomin
The original version of the changes didn't have the IV chord, AFAIK...
Here's the chart from the Vanilla Book, which is often pretty reliable on this stuff... I might try and source a recording as well...
http://www.ralphpatt.com/VB/a25.html
He has it in Em, BTW.
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Originally Posted by christianm77
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Originally Posted by PMB
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The point of analysis for most on this forum...is to educate your ears. Help understand the language of music.
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Originally Posted by HighSpeedSpoon
I studied with a fabulous guitar teacher in Toronto (Tony Bradan) and he always underlined the fact that nearly all American song book tunes start on the tonic chord, wander away for the tonal/key centre a bit and wander back usually over sections of 8 or 16 bars. Alternatively, he said some start from a point some distance from the tonic chord and wander back to the tonic. It gives the progression and tune a feeling of inevitability. Autumn Leaves is in the latter camp... start from afar and work your way back to a place of rest...Em..
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When I gig the horn players want to play in G Minor (most say Bb) but if I play in a string,Hot Club format it is always E minor. E minor gives you those open strings and voicings... Guitar friendly.
Originally Posted by christianm77
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Originally Posted by grahambop
My analysis: All those chords (including G and Em) are just subbing for D7 (alt), tune is noodling around D, and because from that point it's irrelevant weather it will end with G, or Em, composer could not decide btw hey stocks, but being smart enough not to die of hunger he took from both, alternating from one to another.
Sent from VladanMovies @ YouTube
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By the way the melody often ends on the 1st degree of the key (so a bIImaj7 is often viable here.)
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Originally Posted by Roberoo
But G is nice for the open strings, not that I do many open string licks myself.
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It is funny how this tune is so frequently played up and bright when is about the end of a love affair and draws on analogies of dying nature. Yeah, swing it guys!
Originally Posted by grahambop
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Cheerful? Upbeat lyrics? I haven't read the whole thread so maybe I'm missing something.
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Originally Posted by christianm77
For blowing, the Ebmaj7 bar might be converted to Bbm7 Eb7. Or you could play Ebmaj7 here as a resting place and then proceed with | Bbm7 Eb7 | Am7 D7 | Abm7 Db7 | Gm7 C7 |. For the repeat, rather than play Abm7 Db7 (it clashes with the melody), you might extend your bIImaj7 approach, Christian and sub in something like | Abmaj7 Dbmaj7#11 | Gm7 | to keep the chromatic motion intact.
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My point was a general one about standards. Most standard melodies finish on degree 1
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I'm new in this forum, but there are so much interesting questions and nice guitar videos here, it's super!!!
If it's possible, i would like to share with you my improvisation to the Sunny Side of the Street jazz standard:
It's a 3 years old video, but i'm very happy, when i can share it with people, thank you very much, if you listen it! Have a nice day! I'm happy to be here!
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Originally Posted by mate92
Why don't you start your own thread for this? More people would see it. The place for it is the "showcase" section of the forum. Go to showcase , and click "start new thread ".
nice playing. Thanks for posting.
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