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Can someone post some good grips for M9 chords?? 6, 5, 4 string roots, some inversions; chord charts are weak.
Thanks Sailor
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Sailor,
To get this started here are the common root voicings.
1 3 7 9 and 1 5 7 9
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Here's a couple I like to use:
Gmaj9
322233
3x223x
3x423x
3x2232
322232
x10991010
x1099109
x1091110x
xx5435
xx4435
xx4455
xx5455
xx7433
xx7453
xx5775
xx5755
MW
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Thanks Bako and Matt! A lot to digest, as always; especially yours Matt. You have too much in your head!
Sailor
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Thanks guys. I definitely can use the help.
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Below are the note functions of Matt's ma9 list.
Apart from sheer memory of shapes I find it helpful to keep this awareness
so that I can interpret a chord symbol not only as a shape but as a collection of notes that can be combined in many ways, how the notes presently under my fingers can be moved to adjacent scale/chord tones.
a root can be raised to the ma9 or lowered to ma7
a 3rd can be raised to a #11 and lower to ma9
a 5th can be raised to a 6th and lowered to #11
a ma7 can be raised to a 1 and lowered to a 6th
Matt's voicings make use of all lydian extension tones
but always include the 9th
Extension: GBDF#AC#E
Lydian: GABC#DEF#G
Gmaj9
322233 - 1 3 6 9 5 1
3x223x - 1 6 9 5
3x423x - 1 7 9 5
3x2232 - 1 6 9 5 7
322232 - 1 3 6 9 5 7
x10991010 - 1 3 6 9 5
x1099109 - 1 3 6 9 #11
x1091110x - 1 3 7 9
xx5435 - 1 3 5 9
xx4435 - 7 3 5 9
xx4455 - 7 3 6 9
xx5455 - 1 3 6 9
xx7433 - 9 3 5 1
xx7453 - 9 3 6 1
xx5775 - 1 5 7 9
xx5755 - 1 5 6 9
Last edited by bako; 12-16-2008 at 02:19 AM.
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Wow!! I really opened up a can of Maj9 worms! I was just looking for a couple of grips but now we have this great lesson. You might have to back up a little for those of us newer to jazz. First, how about a priority, or, what Maj9's do you actually use most. Second, when you say that Matts voicing are always Lydian extensions are you referring to the notes derived from the 4th scale above G, in this case???
This should be a lesson unto itself on this site.
Thanks Sailor
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I'm learning comping progressions and the chords are all presented with different intervals in the bass. It's surprising to hear how rich three or four notes sound together when the interval per string is mixed up. It also makes for very smooth movement between chords. Joe Pass said he always had a chord in mind when constructing lines. I daresay he was also thinking about inversions. Chord inversions practiced alongside arpeggios with different intervals in the bass; something I wish I'd learnt years ago.
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Sailor,
The extensions are derived from the 4th mode of the D major scale.
IV-GABC#DEF#D derived from I-DEF#GABC#D
In my original response I sent several root inversions on the strings that you requested. I was using solely the formula
1 3 5 7 9 for 4 note chords with either the 5th or the 3rd omitted (1379/1579). You can also leave out the root (3579).
Matt answered your question more broadly addressing major 9 as a part of the Major family of chords but always containing a 9th.
Collectively the notes of these Gma9 chords are all from the IV mode of the D major scale.
As to priority grips, hard for me to answer being a Gemini and loving all my harmonic children equally. For accompaniment I play chords in the middle register more frequently than the upper and lower register.
I look at the chord symbols in a chart as suggestions and not as fact. I view the chord as a member of either Major, Minor or Dominant families of sound (in this case major) .
The written melody if there is one adds another layer of info. Some charts will use very nuanced chord symbols while others will keep it simple and leave it to us to expand on it. Comping for a soloist is all about hearing what was played and responding and anticipating what might be played next and sometimes guessing wrong.
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I would say that the voicings I posted could be seen as being either from the Lydian mode or from the Ionian mode, with the exception of the chord that contains the C#, #11, which is definately from the Lydian mode.
Since most of those voicings could be thought of in both modes I'll include some of my favorite maj9th chords that definately contain the C# in every voicing. These are a nice contrast to the above voicings as the #11 gives the chord a "brighter" sound and can provide more of a tonal inspriation to a soloist who is playing over your comping.
322222
322223
342232
342222
342252
3x2222
3x2223
3x4223
3x422x
There are many others but this is a good start. One cool thing to do is build your own voicings, all you need is the 3rd, 7th, 9th, and #11, and maybe the root if you want it in the chord.
MW
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Bako and Matt - I'm loving this conversation and lesson. Why add #11 to maj 9?? Will this confuse melody or solo?? I understand color...
Also, treat me as if I'm illiterate, but why is the mode derivation so important and it doesn't seem to be a consensus anyway.
I thought Maj 9's were just diatonic to ionian.
Sailor
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It's all a matter of color.
Both modes build a maj9 chord:
G Ionian = G B D F# A C E
R 3 5 7 9 11 13
G Lydian = G B D F# A C# E
R 3 5 7 9 #11 13
So the only difference is the #11 between these modes.
If you are looking to play a straight up maj9 chord then the Ionian mode works fine as you are not using the 11th in your voicings. The 11th can be an unwanted note in some maj7(9) voicings as it clashes with the 3rd and sometimes hides the true sound of the chord. on the other hand the 11th is the idiomatic note of the Ionian mode, what gives the mode it's color, so if you are looking to voice an "Ionian maj7(9) chord" than I would say to include that note.
It's just semantics, the best thing to get out of this is that you have two 11ths, normal and #, that you can use when building maj7(9) chords and when improvising over those chords.
MW
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Is this why you see more minor11 than Maj 11. the clash between 3 and 4, (11).
and why aren't you at work today??
Sailor
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Why add #11 to maj 9?
If you like the sound and feel it can contribute to the moment.
Will this confuse melody or solo?
melody: only if the #11 clashes with the melody
solo: a solo is a conversation and anyone can contribute to the harmonic dialogue. Some soloist's prefer to take the lead while others like the band to inject interest and direction. Like any relationship you can uncover a musicians preferences with time. The ability to hear these tones is of course very helpful in this process.
Why is the mode derivation so important and it doesn't seem to be a consensus anyway.
Modes are one way to organize thinking about note collections and the harmony they represent as chords and melody. I believe Jimmy Bruno prefers to think of the parent scale and modifies the notes as needed.
(Someone please correct me if I am mistating his view)
This is somewhat a streamlined approach and is also good.
Every angle has advantages for some situations and is less effective in others. My feeling is to stay open and use whatever perspective assists in getting to the music best in each situation.
I thought Maj 9's were just diatonic to ionian
They are derived from the
Ionian: 13579 11 13 GBDF#A CE
The 11 or C requires care in conjunction with the B. Many refer to it as an avoid note because it can clash and confuse the major quality.
Lydian: 13579 #11 13 GBDF#A C#E
The ma2nd between C# and B is more user friendly.
The I Mode of the Harmonic Major also yields a Ma9.
Although an interesting color is a side road to the standard Ma9th sound.
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Hey Sailor,
yeah the 11th is usually only written into minor chords, if they want you to add it to a major or 7th chord it'll usually be as a sus4 sound.
I'm not at work today because I'm on week one of my six week winter break, gotta love being a teacher!
MW
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Alright, how about a clean, simple, chord chart showing Maj 9's, 6/9's from 6th string root, 5th string root, 4th string root, some inversions, etc....
I think a lot of us would drool over that!!!
For the love of God, remember some of us are new to Jazz!! We can't get all this advanced stuff too fast!!
Sailor
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Cool, I'll do one of Green Dolphin street using all maj9 chord or maj9 voicings, I love a challenge!
MW
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You are the man, and certainly NOT a "student". I hope it's not too hard though; I shrink from challenges!!
Sailor
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Here ya go! I tried to use as many maj9, maj6 and maj6/9 chords, and through in a few m11's that I saw you ask about in another thread.
Dig,
MW
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Looks great, and playable for me. Again, the chords written on top are just lead sheet chords and not actually what is beneath them, right??
I don't know this song, shamefully, so I think I'll listen to a couple of youtube versions, download a lead sheet then apply this.
Great work!
Thanks Sailor
MW - do you think anyone will do another video/mp3 type lesson on this site again?? there are only two and I love them, great lessons w/sheet music, tabs, video, mp3.... VERY educational.
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Don't know about the video/audio, that's Dirk's domain. Maybe send the admin an email and see what happens. I'll be getting some going in the spring on my website, but am still working on it.
MW
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Thnx... really helpful this one!
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