How to add flavour to my comping? (Frustrated)

**JPMike** · 11-11-2012, 05:24 PM

Hey guys,

I have started studying Jazz since October of 2011, it's been a year of ups and downs so far, but progress is always there. Well, even though there are times I am super frustrated with my playing and my evolution, steadily things are getting better.

So for quite some time, I find my comping boring and plain. Whenever, it's a tune like "All of Me" or "Freddie Freeloader" or even a not so busy chord wise "F Blues". The only thing I can do with the chords is either, approach them from a half step down or up, or add an extension or change the rhythmic pattern. I am always talking about an assemble/band situation. Playing solo, chord melody wise, that's another story.

I've seen/heard people add other chords while comping, play in other areas of the neck, etc. Sometimes, I feel like my chord vocabulary is so small. I know my Drop 2 chords, but most of them can't be used in a band situation and sound nice.

I need a start up guide of how to add flavour when I am comping, just to sound better and not boring all the time and play the same chords all over again in each cycle/chorus.

If you don't understand any of the things, I am saying, let me know, I am still trying to get into the whole thing.

Thanks in advance for your time reading this,
Mike

**gersdal** · 11-11-2012, 06:22 PM

Good book on the topic of blues comping:

**gersdal** · 11-11-2012, 06:24 PM

Another one I dig:

**setemupjoe** · 11-11-2012, 08:19 PM

This book is great for jazz comping. I highly recommend it.

Barry Galbraith # 3 - Guitar Comping Play-A-Long Sheet Music by Barry Galbraith | Sheet Music Plus

**monkmiles** · 11-11-2012, 08:33 PM

Check out the book Jazz Guitar Coming by Andrew Green.

**randalljazz** · 11-12-2012, 05:50 AM

Maiden Voyage Guitar Voicings: Mike Di Liddo: Amazon.com: Books

multiple choruses; practical, playable comping. the above mentioned green and galbraith are excellent in their own way.

**JPMike** · 11-12-2012, 06:22 AM

So I guess, I will need to buy some books.

I will check some out for sure.

Thanks guys.

**bako** · 11-12-2012, 09:34 AM

Books are cool and can make a difference.
Listening and transcribing can accomplish similar things in an organic way.

One other suggestion: In addition to playing voicings that you know in rhythmic patterns, play simple secondary melodies harmonized.

**eddy b.** · 11-12-2012, 10:31 AM

Maybe try listening to Count Basie Big Band and learn the "background" horn lines, parts and rhythms. Thats how I learned to "comp" plus many years (8) of just trying to "get it". Maybe it will work for you Good Luck!

**vsaumarez** · 11-12-2012, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by JPMike

Hey guys,

I have started studying Jazz since October of 2011, it's been a year of ups and downs so far, but progress is always there. Well, even though there are times I am super frustrated with my playing and my evolution, steadily things are getting better.

So for quite some time, I find my comping boring and plain. Whenever, it's a tune like "All of Me" or "Freddie Freeloader" or even a not so busy chord wise "F Blues". The only thing I can do with the chords is either, approach them from a half step down or up, or add an extension or change the rhythmic pattern. I am always talking about an assemble/band situation. Playing solo, chord melody wise, that's another story.

I've seen/heard people add other chords while comping, play in other areas of the neck, etc. Sometimes, I feel like my chord vocabulary is so small. I know my Drop 2 chords, but most of them can't be used in a band situation and sound nice.

I need a start up guide of how to add flavour when I am comping, just to sound better and not boring all the time and play the same chords all over again in each cycle/chorus.

If you don't understand any of the things, I am saying, let me know, I am still trying to get into the whole thing.

Thanks in advance for your time reading this,
Mike

Mike, it sounds like you are doing is what you should be doing, and getting bored with one's playing happens to everyone. The only thing you don't mention which may relieve some of the repetition is stepping back. Playing less is playing more, and those spaces can be important. Once you know extensions 6, 9 11, 13, altered notes #5 b5 #9 b9, and can play in 4 positions on the neck you are there. In a combo you can drop the root note and play closed voicings which are usually four note chords that "voice lead" or blend into each without big leaps other with a leading note. However, this is all academic as rhythm is essential. When, where and how you place those chords is something that is true art, which is why spacing is so important. You have to think what the soloist that you are accompanying may like, or need in order to lift, help, compliment or inspire his/her solo.

**JPMike** · 11-12-2012, 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by eddy b.

Maybe try listening to Count Basie Big Band and learn the "background" horn lines, parts and rhythms. Thats how I learned to "comp" plus many years (8) of just trying to "get it". Maybe it will work for you Good Luck!

Never thought of that, will surely try out something like it.

Originally Posted by vsaumarez

Mike, it sounds like you are doing is what you should be doing, and getting bored with one's playing happens to everyone. The only thing you don't mention which may relieve some of the repetition is stepping back. Playing less is playing more, and those spaces can be important. Once you know extensions 6, 9 11, 13, altered notes #5 b5 #9 b9, and can play in 4 positions on the neck you are there. In a combo you can drop the root note and play closed voicings which are usually four note chords that "voice lead" or blend into each without big leaps other with a leading note. However, this is all academic as rhythm is essential. When, where and how you place those chords is something that is true art, which is why spacing is so important. You have to think what the soloist that you are accompanying may like, or need in order to lift, help, compliment or inspire his/her solo.

Well, I feel I don't know many shapes and positions.

In 4 positions, you mean, as the root starting in 4 different strings?

Unfortunately, I am not even close to be able to help any soloist with my comping, I feel like more of a "backing track". hehe.

About Rootless chords, hell, I am still not close to the concept.

**Bill C** · 11-13-2012, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by setemupjoe

This book is great for jazz comping. I highly recommend it.

Barry Galbraith # 3 - Guitar Comping Play-A-Long Sheet Music by Barry Galbraith | Sheet Music Plus

+1 - a teacher told me to get this years ago and it is pure gold dust imo

**Reg** · 11-13-2012, 11:20 AM

Here's a post I made a while ago about comping and how to approach. There are some of my basic reference chords and I talk about how I use them... As with almost all aspect in music... "Reference, Relationships and Developments".

Anyway here is the previous post...

I'm going to get into how I comp in a jazz style... there are a few different approaches... but I've made a choice as to how I approach. It's fairly simple.

As usual... I have concepts, which then take a shape or arrangement of the form of the tune. To get to that point of being able to use concepts... you need starting points, references that become instinctive.

Here is a sample of basic movable chord forms, all based on open position with roots on 6th, 5th and 4th strings. There all 7th chords which is somewhat the starting point, that starting reference that I always relate to... at least with jazz.

You can take any form of a chord... be aware of the voicing style, how the notes are arranged, and then use that "voicing form", again the arrangement of the notes.... and use for all chords of a tune. You'll become aware of what the lead note is as well as what other lead notes are available from that form of voicing. Eventually you'll be able to hear and use as you choose.

If you keep the same voicing style through a passage... your creating a style or sound... when you mix different voicing styles, again your creating a different style or sound. Your arranging whether your aware of it or not.... It's almost like traditional voice leading, but instead of a few sets of one dimensional rules... (I'm taking it for granted we all know and understand traditional voice leading... if you don't... it's not complicated.) Again you have many different voicing styles which become a tool to use as you choose. You can make a lead line, a melody or a groove line on top be out front or somewhat more background like... by how you use your voicing types. Voicing styles are one of many tools which help create different jazz styles.

All voicing have inversions, you can play all the notes or some of the notes, whatever you choose... The root position chords... become a reference point, a mechanical method of learning your fret board and what's available in any position.

The sample voicings I notated are somewhat vanilla, very basic but useful and for most guitar players great starting point.

One of the goals or where you want to get... is to be aware of all the aspects of comping... Generally you want to get to the point where you have control of the lead line, next the bass motion and then the inner voices. If you have control of the bass line, you'll generally not get in the way of the bass player. And as far as implying the harmony... when you understand harmony, jazz harmony... there are many methods of implying a chord besides simply playing the 3rd and 7th. Fifty years ago maybe... I'll get into some of those methods... in next few posts.

I'll post video later tonight and play/talk through some tunes with different styles of comping...
Reg
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**mr. beaumont** · 11-13-2012, 01:31 PM

A couple of things on this topic...

1. You have to decide if "flavorful" comping is what the situation calls for. I always aim to support first, flavor next

2. In some ways, Your comping is essentially as good as your voice leading.

3. The chords Reg provides in his post are great, useful chords. We get into this idea of being so colorful with comping...but that's not always our place.

4. Being rhythmically interesting might be just as good as being harmonically interesting...but again, it's about what the situation calls for, not about what gets us our jollies...

**Sam Sherry** · 11-13-2012, 01:58 PM

Mike --

Your post resonates for me.

Fundamentally, it's hard to move away from down-the-middle comping when you are playing alone. That [insert 'outside' voicing of choice] thing that worked so well behind your tenor-player's solo at some particular moment is just going to sound odd when you're hearing it all alone at another time and place. There's a natural tendency to gravitate to 'inside the box' instead.

So a lot of growing your comping vocabulary is about trusting yourself as you stretch your ears. Another lot of it is finding very patient friends who will suffer with you while you all work things through.

Hope this helps.

**Reg** · 11-13-2012, 07:30 PM

Just a few points about comping... almost any chords can work anywhere... You don't have to play all the notes. As was brought up the context is always important... But before you can be aware of what a context is... you need a set of reference chords to start with. They need to reflect the style and you need to be able to play them anywhere on the neck.

The chords I showed are basic Jazz chords... (there not rock, blues or pop chords)...there are millions of versions of each one. But they work in almost any jazz context AS STARTING POINTS. You may never actually play those voicings but they give you a reference any where on your neck ... to begin comping in a jazz style...

Before you begin developing your personal comping vocabulary, developing rhythmic concepts, subs, reharms what ever direction you want or what you believe the context to be... You need a comping starting point, a jazz starting point.

You can choose different basic 7th chords, whatever system you want, but it needs to be complete and cover the entire neck.... as I always say... Play any note on top of any chord anywhere on the neck.

After you have those together... then you move on.

Reg

**JPMike** · 11-14-2012, 11:07 AM

Guys thank you so much for all your suggestions and help.

What I realised is, I need to get my timing solid and probably try different rhythmic patterns.

**Double 07** · 11-14-2012, 11:23 AM

"Chord Chemistry" By Ted Green is a fantastic book. It's deep but a lot of great knowledge to be gleaned from that book regarding chords and chord subs.

**Reg** · 11-14-2012, 01:13 PM

Here is a sample of comping through "All of Me". Don't try and catch all the voicings or chords... try and hear the tonal areas I'm implying and how I link those tonal areas together.

Listen to the chordal implications, what Chord Patterns I use and when I approach the next tonal two bar area, how I approach. Listen to how I comp using strong and weak feel, not just down beat strong, up beat weak, how I rhythmically create strong weak patterns.

I'm basically just playing from Maj/Min functional harmony, with use of Blue Notes to organize harmonic patterns... a system to help control chord movement, (function). I'm not using Maj/min harmony with Harmonic minor. There are other methods of creating Dom Function.
Lets not get into the Harmonic Minor functional harmony debate... if you use and like... great, I don't.

So this approach of comping is the same approach when I solo. I develop melodies, embellish and ornament melodic lines... but almost all my melodic improve is in reference to harmony. Even when I mechanically develop lines melodically... there is a reference.

Most of the time when I solo I hear lines reflecting chords... lots of chords.

The video is full of mistakes etc... just one take playing through tune... probably a few wrong changes... No real organization, but this way actually reflects how I play... If I played through the tune again... might be very different... but the concept would be the same.

Reg

**mr. beaumont** · 11-14-2012, 01:39 PM

Good vid...

Anybody new out there, watch how he uses a few stock grips and changes the note on top to create movement....no need for fretboard gymnastics...

**JPMike** · 11-14-2012, 05:35 PM

Reg, thanks so much for posting this. I have to take my time to understand the whole idea behind it, I am not even close to how advanced you guys are, but I am trying to get somewhere.

That's the comping I like.

Makes me smile.

If I post a video of me playing, I will get humiliated of how bad I am.

**Reg** · 11-14-2012, 08:34 PM

Hey JPMike...

Thanks, and don't worry what anyone thinks of your playing... There's always someone better... But if you do decide to post video, I'll gladly check it out.
As Mr. B. was saying the video was very simple and standard chord forms, jazz chord forms.

Hey Mr. B. thanks... Most tunes are pretty straight ahead... No gymnastics needed...fretboard gymnastics, cool. I can cover those also... But not many interested, years ago when I covered funk and R&B gigs... Some of my grooves at gigs, stretching out tunes would get pretty cool. Jazz players playin funk...Drummers would go off.
Reg

**Reg** · 11-14-2012, 08:35 PM

Hey JPMike...

Thanks, and don't worry what anyone thinks of your playing... There's always someone better... But if you do decide to post video, I'll gladly check it out.
As Mr. B. was saying the video was very simple and standard chord forms, jazz chord forms.

Hey Mr. B. thanks... Most tunes are pretty straight ahead... No gymnastics needed...fretboard gymnastics, cool. I can cover those also... But not many interested, years ago when I covered funk and R&B gigs... Some of my grooves at gigs, stretching out tunes would get pretty cool. Jazz players playin funk...Drummers would go off.
Reg

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 11-15-2012, 04:50 PM

I'm at work, listening to the album "take ten" (Desmond/Hall) on my headphones. There's a lot of separation with sax in one ear and guitar in another. It really gives you a good idea of the back-n-forth between the two, and the comping ideas (for example, about establishing a groove) are easy to hear.

**JPMike** · 11-15-2012, 09:58 PM

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles

I'm at work, listening to the album "take ten" (Desmond/Hall) on my headphones. There's a lot of separation with sax in one ear and guitar in another. It really gives you a good idea of the back-n-forth between the two, and the comping ideas (for example, about establishing a groove) are easy to hear.

I will check it out, I love this forum, people actually help.