The Minor Cliche

[AllanAllen]

So, the minor cliche is as follows

minor, minor(maj7), minor7, minor6

see attachment for example using D-

when I play this I’ll use the following grips, every, freaking, time.

D-: x x 12 10 10 10
D-^7: x x 11 10 10 10
D-7: x x 10 10 10 10
D-6: x x 9 10 10 10

How else can I navigate this?

Example tune: In A Sentimental Mood

[pamosmusic]

So, the minor cliche is as follows

minor, minor(maj7), minor7, minor6

see attachment for example using D-

when I play this I’ll use the following grips, every, freaking, time.

D-: x x 12 10 10 10
D-^7: x x 11 10 10 10
D-7: x x 10 10 10 10
D-6: x x 9 10 10 10

How else can I navigate this?

Example tune: In A Sentimental Mood

What you're playing is a triad with the root moving down by half step ... so invert the triad and make the same move from the root in each of the other two inversions.

Also ...

D- ... A7#5 ... D-7 ... G7 is a common way of producing the same effect and that maybe gives you some ideas of other things you could do with the change.

[Mick-7]

This is sort of thing you discover from working out chord melodies.

Just put the moving line in other voices, for example:

3rd on top, Moving voice in alto:

(Dm) | x-x-12-14-15-13 | >> (Dm#7) | x-x-12-14-14-13 | >> (Dm7) | x-x-12-14-13-13 |

>> (Dm6/Bm7b5) | x-x-12-14-12-13 | >> (E7b9/G7b9) | x-x-12-13-12-13 |

>> (AM9) | x-x-11-13-12-12 | or >> (CM9) | x-x-10-12-12-12 |

5th on top, root on 5h or 4th (open) string, Moving voice in tenor:

(Dm) | x-(0)-0-7-6-5 | >> (Dm#7) | x-(0)-0-6-6-5 | >> (Dm7) | x-(0)-0-5-6-5 |

>> (Dm6/Bm7b5) | x-(0)-0-4-6-5 | >> the rest of Michelle.

[Christian Miller]

So, the minor cliche is as follows

minor, minor(maj7), minor7, minor6

see attachment for example using D-

when I play this I’ll use the following grips, every, freaking, time.

D-: x x 12 10 10 10
D-^7: x x 11 10 10 10
D-7: x x 10 10 10 10
D-6: x x 9 10 10 10

How else can I navigate this?

Example tune: In A Sentimental Mood

Stairway denied


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[ragman1]

There's a 'bass' version I use a lot. In Dm :

x5776x
x4322x
x3321x
x2323x

Chord-wise, that's

Dm
C#+
F/C
Bm7b5

Works a treat.

[bozobreak]

Or:
xx323x
xx322x
xx321x
xx320x
I use it a lot in GJ tunes

[ragman1]

PS. You can also substitute the V of the minor, i.e

| Am / AmM7 Am7 | D7 |

(depending on the tune and the sound/effect you want)

[Mick-7]

PS. You can also substitute the V of the minor, i.e

| Am / AmM7 Am7 | D7 |

(depending on the tune and the sound/effect you want)

Yes, but Am6 = D9 (no root) and F#m7b5.

[AllanAllen]

Preserving the chromatic line and inverting the rest of the chord. It's so obvious of course I missed it.

Listening to a lot of Sentimental Mood takes this morning, to see how people get around this.

I like this Duke Ellington and John Coltrane one where he does something entirely different. I could then leave the chromatic line (really, it's the bass line) for the bass player. I wonder if I can get something from Christian's swing bass and guitar riff video. There's also got to be a way to use the Barry Harris 6th/diminished over this.

Just brainstorming.... whatever happened to Reg, he was great at this kind of stuff.

[ragman1]

I seem to remember Joe Pass had his own version of this (to avoid the cliche) like doing it in reverse or something but I can't find it at the moment.

No, not the James Bond idea :-)

[Reg]

Hay Allan,

Line cliches generally imply harmonic movement. And tend to be used on static chords.

The one you posted, Dmin

D-: x x 12 10 10 10
D-^7: x x 11 10 10 10
D-7: x x 10 10 10 10
D-6: x x 9 10 10 10

Could be a few chord patters, depending on the Tonal Reference.

D-7 A7 D-7 G7 etc...

What usually happens is you make an analysis or choice as to how your going to create relationships with the line cliche. The Analysis implies Tonal references...

Using standard analysis techniques... you have musically organized methods of expanding or changing the chords..
How to organize your development of relationships with the Line cliche.

[AllanAllen]

Thanks Reg, this little bit helps open the possibilities for me. I can do a lot with i V7 i IV7

D-7 A7 D-7 G7 etc...

Is there a reason not to think of the whole thing as D-7 and the chromatic bit as a riff that can be discarded? Then I could go someplace like

D-7 D-6 Fmaj7 Edim

[John A.]

Unless I’m not seeing it, no one seems to have mentioned

x57765 (Dmin)
x57665 (DminM7)
x57565 (Dmin7 or G11)
x57465 (Dmin6 or G9)
I’ll often leave the top and bottom voices out, or just play the descending line against the 3rd.

Works against a static minor chord and can also be a ii V against some flavor of C chord.

[Mick-7]

Line cliches generally imply harmonic movement. And tend to be used on static chords.

Or static melodies, been learning a few Bill Evans tunes lately and noticed he does this a lot - although if you do it as well as he does, they won't sound like cliches.

Unless I’m not seeing it, no one seems to have mentioned

x57765 (Dmin)
x57665 (DminM7)
x57565 (Dmin7 or G11)
x57465 (Dmin6 or G9)

I’ll often leave the top and bottom voices out, or just play the descending line against the 3rd. Works against a static minor chord and can also be a ii V against some flavor of C chord.

This is the same chord progression I mentioned in my post #3 but played on the middle rather than top strings (down an octave).

[Christian Miller]

1-7-b7-6-b6-5 has been a classic move in Western music since at least the 17th century. Usually associated with death. Bach associated it often with the crucifixion.

I don't feel the same morbid connection in the jazz repertoire interestingly.

This thing can be the melody, but if it's not the melody often fixates on the notes 5-4-(b3) against it. I mean it's funny if you play these tunes after each other...
No Moon At All, Blue Skies, It Don't Mean a Thing, Chim Chim Cheree, Insenzatez, Corcovado, Exit Music For a Film, Hotel California....

Originally AFAIK it was mostly used as a bassline. A good example in standards rep would be No Moon At All
Dm A7/C# D7/C G7/B C7/Bb Dm/A A7

So similar to Reg's progression with the exception that the we have a secondary dominant for the third chord, which is big and clever although not always present. It's similar to the chords used for this situation for the verse of I Found a New Baby and the main theme of the Kyrie of Mozart's Great Mass in C minor which use the chromatic descent thing as the top line.

Im V7 I7 IV7 bVII7
(I Found a New Baby verse goes Im V7 I7 IVm)

or a chromatic cycle progression. Mozart loved these things as music as Gershwin.....

Or it could just be a static Im chord haha. Like In Walked Bud.

How Insensitive borrowed Chopin's more chromatic treatment of the same device in the E minor prelude.

Come to think of it Teardrop by Massive Attack has a trace of this even though it's in a major mode. Which is appropriate because it was a lament for Jeff Buckley. Who also once sang Dido's farewell. These archetypes are very powerful and resonant.

[pamosmusic]

Thanks Reg, this little bit helps open the possibilities for me. I can do a lot with i V7 i IV7



Is there a reason not to think of the whole thing as D-7 and the chromatic bit as a riff that can be discarded? Then I could go someplace like

D-7 D-6 Fmaj7 Edim

Nah you don’t want to get too hung up on the pitches. The important thing is the purpose it’s serving. Look at the line cliches in Sentimental Mood …

Dm … D … C# … C … B … to Gm … so the B leads right to the third of Gm. That’s really common. You’ll see the line cliche in My Funny Valentine does the same thing. So that complete line is usually a move from tonic minor to iv. The important thing is highlight the harmony (tonic minor) and making the move to iv.

Notice that Gm is also a line cliche and the line goes … G … F# … F … E then down to Dm in the next bar. So again that line is serving a purpose.

The reason you can often sub the other way and put a line cliche in place of a m7 chord is because usually m7 are ii chords and the line cliche walks you from the root of the ii chord into the third of the V chord. As in the last four of Tenor Madness.

EDIT: looking at Christians list.

It don’t mean a thing — Gm walks down to the third of C7

No Moon — Dm walks down to the fifth of Edim

Insensatez - Dm walks down to the root of Bb

Corcovado — partial line cliche where Am walks down to the root of G … but if you get fancy with that C7 it could take you all the way to F too.

etc etc. so the line cliche serves a purpose in all of these. That doesn’t mean the guitarist is the one who needs to play the chromatic line, but the chords you play should be focused on getting where the line cliche is supposed to be going.

[Christian Miller]

etc etc. so the line cliche serves a purpose in all of these. That doesn’t mean the guitarist is the one who needs to play the chromatic line, but the chords you play should be focused on getting where the line cliche is supposed to be going.

I'd add to that that it also works the other way around. Using the line cliche on a minor chord pretty much always works, and you should do it when soloing too. A classic example is Groovin' High when it is used over a II V. Am7 D7 is handled with Am Am(maj7) Am7 Am6

On the other hand if we take the chromatic descent as bassline, there's a million chord progressions on it, and without getting into the woods I'll just say this is a source of fun substitutions.

[pamosmusic]

I'd add to that that it also works the other way around. Using the line cliche on a minor chord press much always works, and you should do it when soloing too. A classic example is Groovin' High when it is used over a II V. Am7 D7 is handled with Am Am(maj7) Am7 Am6

On the other hand if we take the chromatic descent as bassline, there's a million chord progressions on it, and without getting into the woods I'll just say this is a source of fun substitutions.

Yeah that might’ve gotten lost in my rambling, but I was trying to say that you can use the line cliche over any old minor pretty much. But you can’t use any old minor phrase over a composed line cliche.

But lots of fun chord changes contain that line and finding ones that get where you’re going is cool.

[pamosmusic]

I'd add to that that it also works the other way around. Using the line cliche on a minor chord press much always works, and you should do it when soloing too. A classic example is Groovin' High when it is used over a II V. Am7 D7 is handled with Am Am(maj7) Am7 Am6

Habanera too, yeah?

[AllanAllen]

Nah you don’t want to get too hung up on the pitches. The important thing is the purpose it’s serving. Look at the line cliches in Sentimental Mood …

Dm … D … C# … C … B … to Gm … so the B leads right to the third of Gm. That’s really common. You’ll see the line cliche in My Funny Valentine does the same thing. So that complete line is usually a move from tonic minor to iv. The important thing is highlight the harmony (tonic minor) and making the move to iv.

Notice that Gm is also a line cliche and the line goes … G … F# … F … E then down to Dm in the next bar. So again that line is serving a purpose.

The reason you can often sub the other way and put a line cliche in place of a m7 chord is because usually m7 are ii chords and the line cliche walks you from the root of the ii chord into the third of the V chord. As in the last four of Tenor Madness.

EDIT: looking at Christians list.

It don’t mean a thing — Gm walks down to the third of C7

No Moon — Dm walks down to the fifth of Edim

Insensatez - Dm walks down to the root of Bb

Corcovado — partial line cliche where Am walks down to the root of G … but if you get fancy with that C7 it could take you all the way to F too.

etc etc. so the line cliche serves a purpose in all of these. That doesn’t mean the guitarist is the one who needs to play the chromatic line, but the chords you play should be focused on getting where the line cliche is supposed to be going.

But can't we drop the chormatic part after the head? I'm looking for things to do on the 5th time round the chorus, when the song is established and I'm bored of the D C# # B move.

[Christian Miller]

I just play on the minor chord m8. Look at the melody actually - amazing note choices


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[Christian Miller]

Habanera too, yeah?

Not sure what you mean? Yes it’s a lamento figure and you can totally use as a ii V lick but that’s not the original context?


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[Christian Miller]

Yeah that might’ve gotten lost in my rambling, but I was trying to say that you can use the line cliche over any old minor pretty much. But you can’t use any old minor phrase over a composed line cliche.

Yeah I mean I usually block it down. So I do kind of play any old minor phrase on a composed minor line cliche sort of progression if it was Dm Dm(maj7) Dm7 or Dm6. Same as a minor turnaround. Static harmony really. I’d then put movement into my lines on top (or just play the blues scale. Is a coin flip with me y’know.)

I’d do that on It Don’t Mean a Thing or whatever. I don’t always want to be doing the chromatic thing. Definitely on Sentimental Mood.

So arrest me or whatever.

I would be less inclined to do this if the chromatic was in the bass line and the chords were more movey aroundy (like with No Moon or Insensatez), but now I’m wondering…

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[pamosmusic]

Yeah I mean I usually block it down. So I do kind of play any old minor phrase on a composed minor line cliche sort of progression if it was Dm Dm(maj7) Dm7 or Dm6. Same as a minor turnaround. Static harmony really. I’d then put movement into my lines on top (or just play the blues scale. Is a coin flip with me y’know.)

I’d do that on It Don’t Mean a Thing or whatever. I don’t always want to be doing the chromatic thing. Definitely on Sentimental Mood.

So arrest me or whatever.

I would be less inclined to do this if the chromatic was in the bass line and the chords were more movey aroundy (like with No Moon or Insensatez), but now I’m wondering…

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I was talking about chords … phrase was not the right word probably. Chord pattern, block, whatever.

[pamosmusic]

Not sure what you mean? Yes it’s a lamento figure and you can totally use as a ii V lick but that’s not the original context?


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Dizzy uses it alllllllll the time over minor key tunes or ii-Vs