-
My jazz is vanilla ice cream in a 1 gallon bucket.
-
05-07-2024 03:42 PM
-
My jazz is vanilla with a wooden spoon-stick.
-
Jazz is vanilla ice-cream. If your licks don't work then you suck.
-
Those are so good. With the strawberry jelly swirl...
Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
-
When I see alt I play #9 b13. If I want movement, I may drop the #9 to the b9.
If you want it in chord juxtaposition, it's an Abm(add9) over a G7.
This seems to work well and nobody complains.
Caveat: my goal is no complaints, not theoretical nirvana.
-
Yea... if you have good rhythm... and then know how to use that good rhythm structurally within Form.... you can use all the flavors and everyone still thinks your vanilla...
For the record.... generally Alt. typically is more about what 5th your using or implying.
There a lots of ways to notate, think or talk about... but when you start creating relationships and developing them... the 5th tends to be where most seem to have trouble harmonically organizing... or maybe the difference between...
vanilla with added flavors and toppings.... and other starting flavors with vanilla also just being a topping.
-
Here we go again... Originally Posted by Reg
I can't help but notice all 4 of Orri's options use a natural 5th... So Reg, do you think of the #11 as a b5 and the b13 as a #5?How Galt is usually taught is that you can pick one out of these four: G7b9#11, G7#9#11, G7b9b13, G7#9b13.
Why is one chord so complicated?
-
This is more for Allen.... chords or chord symbols on charts are not in isolation. Part of being a jazz player, playing a jazz chart or just playing in a Jazz style is being aware of what the rest of the chart and tune is implying Harmonically and the ... the style your playing the tune in.
I work and have worked with way to many ensembles.... you also need to be aware of how different players ... play or perform. This is more in the direction of.... you need to be able to HEAR. Most amateurs don't understand harmonic concepts.... you also need to be able to hear muddy combinations... the term avoid note(s) is not just technical term for arranging etc... Performance avoid notes...LOL. Like I said above... listen to good bass players, what 5th are they using. the altered 9ths and 5ths ( b9 #9 and b5 and #5 ) approach is more of a way to avoid train wrecks.
It can be complicated... kind of like playing the blues.
-
Reg the way you describe it... I think I need to set up a real book jam or something... A weekly thing where I can play with some guys and get more work on my ensemble ear. Too much solo studying, Playing a mix of tunes I've worked out and new tunes.
Simple things have become abstract and don't make sense.
-
I think my question would be: Originally Posted by AllanAllen
If there is a #11 or a b13 …
… are you playing the fifth anyway?
and I guess to answer the question directly, I don’t think Orri is using the best chord symbols in this context for the reason you specify. When you see “7#11,#9” or whatever, that does imply the presence of a fifth and there’s no mention of its alteration. That would make it not really an “alt” chord at all.
BUT again … would I play the chords they wrote with a natural fifth? Almost certainly not.
-
Originally Posted by AllanAllen
No.... Altered doesn't have a natural 5th. Typically altered is from opening the MM door and
R, b9th, #9th, 3rd, b5, b13, b7. technically labeled 1, b2 b3 b4 b5 b6 b7....
Before Altered we used Maj/Min approach or HM and added the b7th to fill in the gap ... which had nat. 5th
Or C Har. Min. C D Eb F G Ab Bb B C which gave us G7 altered G Ab A#(Bb) B C D Eb F G... which didn't sound that great, didn't really cover blue notes... then started using MM or expanded version of Sub V7's
The #11 anyway.... that is just the somewhat in isolation thing. Where your playing the chord or collection of notes is the next step into filling in Blanks. And of course.... most jazz player play Chord Patterns, which have builtin Harmonic organization.... (the organization of what chords and how they work or function to each other and in the context of the Tune)
-
Allen.... lets pick 5 tunes... simple tunes and maybe work on how to play them and also how one might play them after the head.... comping for soloist etc.. and in different styles.
Autumn
Ill remember April
A blues in Bb or F and
Take the A Train or Exactly like you
A minor blues
Angelica
Cherokee
Well you need...
Have you met...
Nica's
I don't really care what tunes.... just at least 4 or 5 so we can have some context and get out of the isolation approach.... start to hear and play tunes in different styles and learn how to adjust harmonically on the fly.
-
Okay how about these ones that I already know the changes on. Originally Posted by Reg
St. Thomas
Perdido
Afro Blue
Take The A Train
How High the moon
-
Jeez, when will people stop answering practical playing problems with theory answers? It's embarrassing. There you are, playing the thing and you see a 7alt chord. So just play a shell, or play a #9 or a #5. It's easy-peasy, problem over.
What are you going to do, stop the song and have damn seminar about it? It's stupid!
-
OK, Take The A Train. The funny note's a G#. So play D7 - x5453x. No 5th, finished. Originally Posted by AllanAllen
There's no alt chords in How High, just m7b5 or 7b9.
There's an E natural over Ab7 in St Thomas. So play a shell or Ab7#5 - 4x455x. No prob. And it's only one beat so you probably don't need to bother with it at all, just play Dm-G7.
There are no alt chords in Afro Blue or Perdido.
It's not a problem unless you make it one.
-
#5 just on top of plain old major triad is a very dramatic chord. Doesn't sound bad at all.
-
Hes asking a theory question. So he’s getting a theory answer. Originally Posted by ragman1
For what it’s worth, I’ve said “you’re probably not playing the fifth anyway” at least three times.
Cool your jets, guy.
-
Maybe the real issue is the actual usage of the 7alt and all other hazy altered dominants.
When using them as is, like "were sitting on some crazy intense measure for a while" vs "we're going to a sad minor key.. be very very ready!"
The 1st case is so free, the 2nd tends to have some expectations of the degrees used. Traditionally speaking.
-
This is the problem, I think. We tend to think the interesting harmony is in these dense chords and stuff, when really the interesting harmony is in simple chords that move in interesting ways. The Ab7 is an approach chord to the G, the E is a passing note between F and D … it’s not that you should play Ab7#5 there or something, it’s that the clash itself makes for an interesting moment of dissonance. Originally Posted by ragman1
Play simple things and be comfortable moving them.
-
If I've learned anything from my Freddie Green obsession, it's that three notes in a chord is a LOT.
See alt? maybe 3 and 7 and one of the altered colors...voice leading trumps everything. And as always if what you play sounds bad, immediately glare at the bassist like it's their fault.
-
Eventually the bassist will learn and not play anything when you do your... "alt". I would.
-
I didn't think Reg wanted songs with Alt chords. I thought it was going turn more general and we would go over what chord patterns are and his thoughts on comping in general. Which I'm always down for. Originally Posted by ragman1
-
I agree, I'm not playing the fifth. Which is something that I keep forgetting when I'm here, away from my guitar. Originally Posted by pamosmusic
-
Right, I missed that post. Oh, well, that's another subject. But at least it gives us a break from ice cream. Originally Posted by AllanAllen
-
Are there any ways possible to to direct it back to OP? Originally Posted by ragman1
Right, I missed that post. Oh, well, that's another subject. But at least it gives us a break from ice cream.
Reply With Quote
1933-34 Gibson L-12 $5800 (Offers Accepted)
Today, 09:59 PM in For Sale