Only Chord-Melody?

[blackcat]

As someone who lives in a rural desert ( actually a bit of an exaggeration ) here in SW France and unlikely at this point in advanced retirement to locate many amateurs keen to play jazz, I am wondering if chord-melody is the way to go rather than endless jamming to backing tracks. How many forum members play chord-melody exclusively I wonder?

[mr. beaumont]

As someone who lives in a rural desert ( actually a bit of an exaggeration ) here in SW France and unlikely at this point in advanced retirement to locate many amateurs keen to play jazz, I am wondering if chord-melody is the way to go rather than endless jamming to backing tracks. How many forum members play chord-melody exclusively I wonder?

Exclusively, no, but I live under the adage of Joe Pass, who said that a guitar player should be able to sit down and play music, unaccompanied, for an hour.

[lawson-stone]

As someone who lives in a rural desert ( actually a bit of an exaggeration ) here in SW France and unlikely at this point in advanced retirement to locate many amateurs keen to play jazz, I am wondering if chord-melody is the way to go rather than endless jamming to backing tracks. How many forum members play chord-melody exclusively I wonder?

Actually Joe Pass was amazing not because he did chord-melody (others did it) but that he could blend that style with long bop lines. Listening to his recordings more and more I'm hearing in his solo guitar work some mind-numbing lines. He wasn't afraid to give several measures to single-note lines even in a solo performance.

I think all the tasks of music reinforce each other. Jamming to backing tracks will give you a solid sense of melody, but for solo playing chord-melody type work is the foundation. You are basically a pianist at that point but with a more interesting sound! But being able to mix in some edgy line playing that meshes with your chord-melody will keep it from all sounding the same.

[emilP]

Je joue exclusivement en solo jazz guitar depuis la mort de mon batteur et le départ de mon contrebassiste aux Émirats

[blackcat]

Exclusively, no, but I live under the adage of Joe Pass, who said that a guitar player should be able to sit down and play music, unaccompanied, for an hour.

Thanks Jeff - I had forgotten that quote. As good a starting point as any I guess!
David

[blackcat]

Actually Joe Pass was amazing not because he did chord-melody (others did it) but that he could blend that style with long bop lines. Listening to his recordings more and more I'm hearing in his solo guitar work some mind-numbing lines. He wasn't afraid to give several measures to single-note lines even in a solo performance.

I think all the tasks of music reinforce each other. Jamming to backing tracks will give you a solid sense of melody, but for solo playing chord-melody type work is the foundation. You are basically a pianist at that point but with a more interesting sound! But being able to mix in some edgy line playing that meshes with your chord-melody will keep it from all sounding the same.

Thanks Lawson for expanding on this, because my fear is/was that all the previous work I put into single line approaches would go to waste - clearly not.

David

[blackcat]

Je joue exclusivement en solo jazz guitar depuis la mort de mon batteur et le départ de mon contrebassiste aux Émirats

Cela vous donne clairement une grande satisfaction de jouer en solo et j'apprécie toutes vos vidéos. Je vous remercie.
Musicalament,
David

[lawson-stone]

Thanks Lawson for expanding on this, because my fear is/was that all the previous work I put into single line approaches would go to waste - clearly not.

David

I don't think any musical work is ever wasted. Jamming with the backing tracks is at the very least teaching you how to move melodically around the fingerboard, how to play through the changes, and how to develop rhythm and melodic sense. All that is helpful in solo guitar playing.

Solo guitar is a thing of its own as well. I used to do it all the time, then realized my ability to "take a solo" was very weak, so I've spent several years now focusing on the melodic improvisational side, and my chord-melody playing has suffered. So I think I need to work a bit on integrating them.

Also: play what gives your heart satisfaction. That's why we do this.

[S F]

Choose which you enjoy more. At times I have the inspiration to really sit down and concentrate on a chord-melody. But other times I just want to play melody and that is enough for me.

[ah.clem]

I'm an older retired guy that has been working on CM/solo guitar for some time now, purely for my own entertainment, but I don't have the ability of many of the players here (Mr. B, for example). I participated in two Jazz Guitar Summer camps these last few months and as a result I have started using backing tracks to help me work out my connecting solo lines between chords and it has been really helpful. I use either iReal Pro or BIAB. I find iReal Pro easier to deal with as I have it on my phone and can practice anywhere.

[Joseph2]

Gabor Zsabo, Baden Powell (60s) & Bill Frisell (now) are 2 examples of solo guitar relatively sparse- very effective.
Anouer Brahim- oud player- only single lines! Yet great solo sound!

Bonjour!

[blackcat]

I'm an older retired guy that has been working on CM/solo guitar for some time now, purely for my own entertainment, but I don't have the ability of many of the players here (Mr. B, for example). I participated in two Jazz Guitar Summer camps these last few months and as a result I have started using backing tracks to help me work out my connecting solo lines between chords and it has been really helpful. I use either iReal Pro or BIAB. I find iReal Pro easier to deal with as I have it on my phone and can practice anywhere.

There are parallels here! I am in my 70s, but highly active and seemingly fit, but not envisaging travelling to major conurbations to seek out a bassist or drummer and in any case, Covid has put all that on hold for the immediate future. Since arriving in France in 2003, I have co-organized and played in one or two large charity gigs two of which were fund - raising for the Tsunami disasters, but they were rock/pop orientated. I have jammed at weekends with a named blues guitarist who wanted to get into jazz and I co-founded an atelier/workshop group with my jazz guitar teacher here which was all-age and multi-instrumentalist and jazz or rock/pop focussed depending on the groups one joined. Some participants were conservatoire and some auto-didacte (moi), but beware those who did not use Solfege routinely! This led to concerts at the chateau where we rehearsed. Patchy to this point. Now, I feel that chord-melody represents a real challenge and when I listen to people like Chris Whiteman I am genuinely inspired. Finally got a tablet and irealpro' so it looks like this could be happening.

[Dana]

I guess I'm the lone dissenter In my opinion there's nothing better than playing with others. I realize the covid pandemic currently makes this impossible, but hopefully once it subsides I plan to return to group playing.

Yes, solo guitar is great, and an art unto itself. But I disagree that it's the 'be all, end all' of guitar playing.

I can always tell when a person I'm gigging with plays mostly solo gigs. Why? Because they have a tendency not to listen in a group setting. They tend to overplay and fill up every sonic space, which leaves no room for anyone else. What's worse is they have no idea they're doing it. Reminds me of someone who's been 'home schooled'. They're book smart but they tend to lack social skills (listening, empathy).

For me, my favorite thing with jazz is the interaction between the players, especially when they're really in the zone and reacting to each other. That shit is magic.

Solo guitar has many advantages. No band members to deal with or share gig money with. No rehearsals to book. Don't have to fight over which tunes to play. But one misses a lot when one doesn't play with other people. And I reject the idea that somehow it's a 'higher' level of playing.

[Marinero]

I guess I'm the lone dissenter In my opinion there's nothing better than playing with others. I realize the covid pandemic currently makes this impossible, but hopefully once it subsides I plan to return to group playing.

Yes, solo guitar is great, and an art unto itself. But I disagree that it's the 'be all, end all' of guitar playing.

I can always tell when a person I'm gigging with plays mostly solo gigs. Why? Because they have a tendency not to listen in a group setting. They tend to overplay and fill up every sonic space, which leaves no room for anyone else. What's worse is they have no idea they're doing it. Reminds me of someone who's been 'home schooled'. They're book smart but they tend to lack social skills.

For me, my favorite thing with jazz is the interaction between the players, especially when they're really in the zone and reacting to each other. That shit is magic.

Solo guitar has many advantages. No band members to deal with or share gig money with. No rehearsals to book. Don't have to fight over which tunes to play. But one misses a lot when one doesn't play with other people. And I reject the idea that somehow it's a 'higher' level of playing.

Hi, D,
You have some interesting ideas in your post and I'd like to comment since I have played solo for the last 30 years. First, There is no substitute for ensemble playing. The interplay between musicians is a major element in a musician's personal growth and the years I played in R@B and Jazz/Rock big bands were a major part of my musical education. Potentially, you can learn more in a three-hour gig than weeks spent in a practice room by yourself--all things being equal. There's always a new interplay, idea, or epiphany that's just waiting around the corner if your ears and eyes are open. And, it is this magic and the camaraderie of fellow musicians that I miss the most.
However, I began my solo career for two reasons: 1.) I lived in a rural area with little or no contact with "real musicians" as I experienced when I lived and played in Chicago and Miami, 2.) I didn't have to deal with the aberrant personalities and poor work ethic with which many musicians I've played with in the past were plagued, and 3.) I made more money and completely controlled the business end of my bookings/contracts which grew exponentially in a short period of time. So, from a practical perspective, it was a win-win. And, when you play solo, it sharpens your skills and confidence since if you falter, everyone knows it--- you're the only one on stage.
So, D, there is no substitute for playing in ensembles but playing solo is not a negative. And, in many cases, it necessitates a higher level of musicianship than when hiding behind others in an ensemble. But, once this madness ends(?), I would like to start a guitar duo/trio with, perhaps, a Latina vocalist if the musicians/vibe is right but, in the meantime, I enjoy solo playing and a bigger paycheck at the end of a gig. Play live when?????? . . . Marinero

[Dutchbopper]

And I reject the idea that somehow it's a 'higher' level of playing.

It is actually the other way around often. Lots of what passes (here) as solo jazz playing is no more than prefab chord melodies from a book. That is not even jazz IMHO. That's a jazz etude at best. Jazz is improvised music and when that component is missing, I refuse to call it jazz.

I vastly prefer single line playing in a combo with real people myself.

DB

[Dana]

So, D, there is no substitute for playing in ensembles but playing solo is not a negative.

Hi Marinero,

I appreciate your reply, but to be clear I never said playing solo guitar was a negative. What I specifically said is that I reject the idea that playing solo is the epitome of guitar playing (an opinion held by some guitar players that only play solo guitar).

[blackcat]

I guess I'm the lone dissenter In my opinion there's nothing better than playing with others. I realize the covid pandemic currently makes this impossible, but hopefully once it subsides I plan to return to group playing.

Yes, solo guitar is great, and an art unto itself. But I disagree that it's the 'be all, end all' of guitar playing.

I can always tell when a person I'm gigging with plays mostly solo gigs. Why? Because they have a tendency not to listen in a group setting. They tend to overplay and fill up every sonic space, which leaves no room for anyone else. What's worse is they have no idea they're doing it. Reminds me of someone who's been 'home schooled'. They're book smart but they tend to lack social skills (listening, empathy).

For me, my favorite thing with jazz is the interaction between the players, especially when they're really in the zone and reacting to each other. That shit is magic.

Solo guitar has many advantages. No band members to deal with or share gig money with. No rehearsals to book. Don't have to fight over which tunes to play. But one misses a lot when one doesn't play with other people. And I reject the idea that somehow it's a 'higher' level of playing.

I can only refer you back to my original post at the beginning of this thread. Otherwise, you surely make some valid points.

[blackcat]

It is actually the other way around often. Lots of what passes (here) as solo jazz playing is no more than prefab chord melodies from a book. That is not even jazz IMHO. That's a jazz etude at best. Jazz is improvised music and when that component is missing, I refuse to call it jazz.

I vastly prefer single line playing in a combo with real people myself.

DB

Dick,

All very true and I am sure that you excel at it, but see my original post.

David

[Marinero]

" can always tell when a person I'm gigging with plays mostly solo gigs. Why? Because they have a tendency not to listen in a group setting. They tend to overplay and fill up every sonic space, which leaves no room for anyone else. What's worse is they have no idea they're doing it. Reminds me of someone who's been 'home schooled'. They're book smart but they tend to lack social skills (listening, empathy)." Dana

Hi, D,
You must understand that this is your personal opinion and does not represent any reality I've ever experienced. To assume that solo players don't listen to anyone and overplay does not jive with my 50 plus years of performing. And, to state they have no idea that they're doing it and lack social skills is patently absurd. I gigged with piano players for years who made a full-time living playing solo in big Chicago and Miami hotels. They played solo because it was very lucrative, very steady, and they played union gigs in beautiful venues without flying beer bottles, sloppy obnoxious drunks, and owners who cheated them at the end of the night. And, in their free time, they jobbed with various groups around the city to fill out their week. They were always consummate musicians and in no way resemble your fantasy portrait of solo players. I doubt you have played much with professional musicians, if ever, based on your ridiculous remarks. Play live . . . Marinero

[blackcat]

Notwithstanding my narrowly drawn OP, I now wonder what someone like Martin Taylor might think of some of the comments appearing latterly in this thread

David

[Dutchbopper]

Notwithstanding my narrowly drawn OP, I now wonder what someone like Martin Taylor might think of some of the comments appearing latterly in this thread

David

MT is a jazz musician. He improvises a lot when he is playing solo, even though he probably uses preconceived stuff. He is a fine single line player as well by the way. He does not play prefab chord melodies played earlier by others from books or other sources. Same for Joe Pass. They are playing their own stuff in their own voice and they create music on the spot, single line or chordal. If you can play solo jazz guitar like that you have my blessings.

Jazz is instant creation to a large degree. Never 100% reproduction. That was my message. Reproduction is a learning tool, not a performing one.

DB

[blackcat]

MT is a jazz musician. He improvises a lot when he is playing solo, even though he probably uses preconceived stuff. He is a fine single line player as well by the way. He does not play prefab chord melodies played earlier by others from books or other sources. Same for Joe Pass. They are playing their own stuff in their own voice and they create music on the spot, single line or chordal. If you can play solo jazz guitar like that you have my blessings.

Jazz is instant creation to a large degree. Never 100% reproduction. That was my message. Reproduction is a learning tool, not a performing one.

DB

Accepted.

David

[Dana]

" can always tell when a person I'm gigging with plays mostly solo gigs. Why? Because they have a tendency not to listen in a group setting. They tend to overplay and fill up every sonic space, which leaves no room for anyone else. What's worse is they have no idea they're doing it. Reminds me of someone who's been 'home schooled'. They're book smart but they tend to lack social skills (listening, empathy)." Dana

Hi, D,
You must understand that this is your personal opinion and does not represent any reality I've ever experienced. To assume that solo players don't listen to anyone and overplay does not jive with my 50 plus years of performing. And, to state they have no idea that they're doing it and lack social skills is patently absurd. I gigged with piano players for years who made a full-time living playing solo in big Chicago and Miami hotels. They played solo because it was very lucrative, very steady, and they played union gigs in beautiful venues without flying beer bottles, sloppy obnoxious drunks, and owners who cheated them at the end of the night. And, in their free time, they jobbed with various groups around the city to fill out their week. They were always consummate musicians and in no way resemble your fantasy portrait of solo players. I doubt you have played much with professional musicians, if ever, based on your ridiculous remarks. Play live . . . Marinero

I love it when people have to include personal attacks when they disagree.

I clearly indicated this was my personal experience. You obviously missed that. If your experience is different, then have a Coke and a smile.

As far as my own experience, I'm an honors graduate of a well known music college in Boston. I have 35 years of gigging experience all over New England. During that time I've gigged with some fairly well established artists. I too have experienced my share of obnoxious audience members (what that has to do with this discussion I have no idea).

I notice you say 'They did this' and 'They did that', which clearly means you're not speaking from your own personal experience. You're trying to use other people's experiences to support your argument.

To call my personal experience a fantasy is weak. I can only assume my comments hit a little too close to home for you.

I suggest you try to learn how the forum software works. Your post looks like it was formatted by my 4 year old nephew.

[grahambop]

I am wondering if chord-melody is the way to go rather than endless jamming to backing tracks. How many forum members play chord-melody exclusively I wonder?

I don’t play it exclusively, but I have been messing about with solo guitar quite a lot the last few years. I spent years working on single-note playing, and to a lesser extent comping, so I felt it was about time I seriously tackled solo guitar.

I prefer the term ‘solo guitar’ rather than chord-melody, because I want to include improvisation as well. (To me the term chord-melody tends to imply fixed arrangements without much improvising, maybe that’s just my view though). The way I look at it, you do need to learn chord-melody approaches first, because that still underlies how you approach arranging the melody statement. But I don’t like using other people’s arrangements, nowadays I always do my own, and I try to do them as ‘off the cuff’ as I can, rather than labouring over them for days. Of course it takes quite a lot of experience before you can do this, but it’s what I always aim for.

Then I want to include one or two improvised choruses. This is the really hard bit, quite honestly there are many ways to approach it and it’s a fun rabbit hole to go down! I got some very useful video lessons from Andy Brown and Bruce Forman which gave great ideas, and of course there are the ‘hot licks’ videos by Joe Pass.

You also have to consider whether to use fingers, pick, or hybrid. Personally I use either pick or fingers depending on tempo and other considerations. I guess you can simplify the basic method to ‘do I play a bass note, a melody note, or a chord, or any permutation of the three’ for any given point in the improvisation. I find the level of improvisation increases the more I incorporate single-note lines, which is not surprising really.

Another thing is keeping time, I don’t mind a bit of rubato for an intro perhaps, but not too much. Once I go into tempo I want it to stay there and have as good a rhythm as possible.

Anyway I find solo guitar a lot of fun but it is a challenge, I’m never satisfied with the results but I keep doing it!

[blackcat]

I don’t play it exclusively, but I have been messing about with solo guitar quite a lot the last few years. I spent years working on single-note playing, and to a lesser extent comping, so I felt it was about time I seriously tackled solo guitar.

I prefer the term ‘solo guitar’ rather than chord-melody, because I want to include improvisation as well. (To me the term chord-melody tends to imply fixed arrangements without much improvising, maybe that’s just my view though). The way I look at it, you do need to learn chord-melody approaches first, because that still underlies how you approach arranging the melody statement. But I don’t like using other people’s arrangements, nowadays I always do my own, and I try to do them as ‘off the cuff’ as I can, rather than labouring over them for days. Of course it takes quite a lot of experience before you can do this, but it’s what I always aim for.

Then I want to include one or two improvised choruses. This is the really hard bit, quite honestly there are many ways to approach it and it’s a fun rabbit hole to go down! I got some very useful video lessons from Andy Brown and Bruce Forman which gave great ideas, and of course there are the ‘hot licks’ videos by Joe Pass.

You also have to consider whether to use fingers, pick, or hybrid. Personally I use either pick or fingers depending on tempo and other considerations. I guess you can simplify the basic method to ‘do I play a bass note, a melody note, or a chord, or any permutation of the three’ for any given point in the improvisation. I find the level of improvisation increases the more I incorporate single-note lines, which is not surprising really.

Another thing is keeping time, I don’t mind a bit of rubato for an intro perhaps, but not too much. Once I go into tempo I want it to stay there and have as good a rhythm as possible.

Anyway I find solo guitar a lot of fun but it is a challenge, I’m never satisfied with the results but I keep doing it!

Thanks for that Grahambop - really useful and instructive.

David