Simplifying Conti "Formula" Progressions

**Cunamara** · 03-25-2017, 11:31 AM

The groove is the king, the melody (or the line, when improvising) is the star, and the chords are the supporting cast. Easy on piano, an absolute bear on the guitar.

To hear someone like Joe Pass, Gene Bertoncini, Julian Lage make it sound so easy...

**tbeltrans** · 03-27-2017, 07:26 PM

Originally Posted by rlrhett

The key, and he says this a lot, is to use your ears and make sure the melody is clear to the listener.

He shared a story where he was listening to a friend play at a club. Someone he was with requested "Misty". The guitar player began with the familiar chord progression, but then placed these long fast lines in between the chords. After a little while, the lady who requested the tune leaned over to Conti and asked, "what song is that? I hope he doesn't forget to play 'Misty'".

Conti talks about this very directly on the DVDs. He says that when you are playing for a non-guitarist audience, you don't want to be playing all manner of fast lines. Instead, keep the melody first and foremost. Any artistic license you take is with the harmony in those situations, and that is what he is teaching in the "The Formula". The audience should be able to start listening at any point in your performance and know exactly what the tune is by the melody. There is a time and place for improvising instead of playing the melody straight, but those situations are not it. He is quite clear on this point.

Tony

**Spalo** · 03-28-2017, 05:33 AM

Originally Posted by tbeltrans

Conti talks about this very directly on the DVDs. He says that when you are playing for a non-guitarist audience, you don't want to be playing all manner of fast lines. Instead, keep the melody first and foremost. Any artistic license you take is with the harmony in those situations, and that is what he is teaching in the "The Formula". The audience should be able to start listening at any point in your performance and know exactly what the tune is by the melody. There is a time and place for improvising instead of playing the melody straight, but those situations are not it. He is quite clear on this point.

Tony

Will any improvisation we come up ever be as good as the original melody? Just an idle thought from a sunny morning in London........

Sp

**tbeltrans** · 03-28-2017, 09:05 AM

Originally Posted by Spalo

Will any improvisation we come up ever be as good as the original melody? Just an idle thought from a sunny morning in London........

Sp

I don't think that is the intention of improv. What is worth consideration is your audience. Unless the audience came to hear "jazz", which typically is known for its improv, they want to hear the melody. Conti is talking about knowing your audience and giving them what they want. Remember that Conti is a professional. when he is paid to play a gig, he needs to be doing what he is being paid for, not what he may want to do. So he suggests that, in that situation, your improv is the harmony, and that is what The Formula helps you achieve.

Tony

**rob taft** · 03-30-2017, 12:54 PM

At the risk of stating the obvious, I would in addition to the posts above which I believe answered the OP's question, I would recommend spending a lot of time listening to the way great soloists approach a standard. The greats never really ever lose the melody.When I talk about the greats I'm not necessarily referring to guitar players. I'm thinking of musicians like Herbie Hancock, Oscar Peterson, Bill Evans etc. For guitarists I'm thinking of the usual suspects such as Joe Pass, Martin Taylor etc and a few other newer guys such as Jonathan Kriesberg's CD "The One". One musician who I really enjoy is Lenny Breau who could wander far from the tune but always seemed to pull it in in the appropriate time.

**neonshaker** · 08-27-2023, 05:35 PM

Sorry to bump this post 6 years later but I have the same question.

So for example in group 1, could I just play the Gmin7 with single notes up until we get to the F melody note and then finish off with the C7 for the F and D melody notes and Fmaj7 for the C melody note in order to make a ii-V-I? It sounds alright to my ears.

I don't want to play 5 chords for 5 melody notes so would also like to have thinner arrangements of my own but with something a little more interesting harmonically but like the OP asked, I'm unsure which chords can be dropped out without "breaking the formula".

Thanks and apologies for the bump.

**Tal_175** · 08-28-2023, 08:33 AM

Originally Posted by neonshaker

Sorry to bump this post 6 years later but I have the same question.

So for example in group 1, could I just play the Gmin7 with single notes up until we get to the F melody note and then finish off with the C7 for the F and D melody notes and Fmaj7 for the C melody note in order to make a ii-V-I? It sounds alright to my ears.

I don't want to play 5 chords for 5 melody notes so would also like to have thinner arrangements of my own but with something a little more interesting harmonically but like the OP asked, I'm unsure which chords can be dropped out without "breaking the formula".

Thanks and apologies for the bump.

I doubt he would harmonize F with C7. It's not that it can't be made to work, it's just that when people go out of their way to write books about harmonizing melody notes, they tend to show different solutions for the 11'th interval. I don't have his first book, but you might want to check that out there.

In the book, "the formula" he doesn't teach a particular formula that can be "broken". He typically starts with a backcycling type of reharmonization and gradually makes it "edgier and edgier" with substitutions.

If you don't want to use the texture of one block chord per note and your understanding of jazz harmony is not yet strong enough to make variations of the examples in the book, I don't think "the formula" is the right book for you. This book as a little "involved" so to speak.

**Tal_175** · 08-28-2023, 08:50 AM

If, understandably, one doesn't want to harmonize every note, I think two approaches make sense.

- Change the harmonic rhythm and find group of notes that can be harmonized with a single chord. For example you can still do cycle of fourths reharmonization but make each chord last for, say, two beats or four beats. Then you can punctuate the chord fewer times than the melody notes or explore other textures (sustain some of the chord tones, play a bass line, voice lead inner lines etc.)

- If you're improvising in the chord melody style, you can outline some of the chords. For example you can drop some of the chords in a cycle but play the motion of the cycle with the single lines by making harmonically strong note choices.

**neonshaker** · 08-28-2023, 09:24 AM

Originally Posted by Tal_175

If you don't want to use the texture of one block chord per note and your understanding of jazz harmony is not yet strong enough to make variations of the examples in the book, I don't think "the formula" is the right book for you. This book as a little "involved" so to speak.

That's a very real possibility. I've finished the Assembly Line and found that one of the best books I've ever used for guitar teaching. The way you as the learner put everything together yourself was enormously rewarding. Then I got to the Formula and understood the theory of the cycle of fourths and the tritone subs etc and where he was coming from with that regard but found the chord on each melody note to sound very clunky.

Perhaps I'll just have to work through putting together my own arrangements using the stuff I learnt in the assembly line and the extra harmonic interest can come later.

People seem to find The Formula a bit of a trickier beast to use

**tbeltrans** · 08-28-2023, 09:27 AM

Another suggestion regarding working with a chord for every melody note...

Why not try thinning things out without removing the chord for every melody note? Consider that each of these chord "grips" that Conti provides, has a lot of meat and maybe removing some notes here and there to change the texture could be a good starting point for your own experimentation.

A few examples:

1. One thing tat Conti does in "Assembly Line" and "The Formula" is to play the root as the lowest note in each form. Why not try playing through some of his arrangements and examples using just that root and melody note to start with? You then have some nice bass lines under the melody to work with.

2. After that, try adding in a note or two in between from the specified chord form to hear what you get.

3. Finally, try mixing and matching using the full chord grip, using just bass and melody, and bass and melody with varying number of the other notes in between.

Conti gives you a lot to work with and you can play with that in all kinds of ways.

Tony

**neonshaker** · 08-28-2023, 09:39 AM

Originally Posted by tbeltrans

1. One thing tat Conti does in "Assembly Line" and "The Formula" is to play the root as the lowest note in each form. Why not try playing through some of his arrangements and examples using just that root and melody note to start with? You then have some nice bass lines under the melody to work with.

2. After that, try adding in a note or two in between from the specified chord form to hear what you get.

3. Finally, try mixing and matching using the full chord grip, using just bass and melody, and bass and melody with varying number of the other notes in between.

Conti gives you a lot to work with and you can play with that in all kinds of ways.

Tony

Nice suggestions. I was hoping you'd chime in as I followed your Conti posts with interest before.