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Hi,
I cannot solve a problem with my Campellone archtop. I changed the strings to a set of 012s with a wound G. The intonation is out quite a bit on the G only and not on the other 5 strings. It's in tune open and harmonic at the 12th but then a good deal sharp fretted at the 12th. As I fret notes on the G string it's OK until about the 6th fret and then it starts getting sharp quickly to almost off the tuner scale (Polytune tuner) at fret 12. Any ideas why this could be happening. I even switched bridges to a Stew Mac purchased one with the offsets for a wound G. Same problem. Can't figure it out...
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10-30-2022 11:38 AM
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Very strange
Are you saying you only get that issue with the sound 3rd ?
an individual bad string is all I can think of ....
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Don't know about the Campellone, some owners might chip in ..But I read recently that Sadowskys have specific compensated bridges for plain or wound G maybe M. Campellone has a similar item.. I'd contact him. He's on the forum....Also this info from another post review of heritage 575...
Originally Posted by mbar65
As Marty Grass stated, "The bridge compensation is set up for a wound G string."
A quick and dirty, low cost experiment would have solved the problem.
Intonation at the 12th fret; sharp = skinny, flat = fat. (!)
For example, if she had an plain .018, move up to .020 or .022.
If a wound string would be of interest, do the same.
Assuming no change in bridge base location and no change in bridge height.
S
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How much is the pitch off at the 12th fret, how many cents? One measurement is better than a thousand guesses. This is clearly unusual and if it is way off you simply have bad strings and need to try another possible and as mentioned the gauge probably go to a bit lighter gauge like .34 to .32 or even .30.
I am one of those who always use an ebony or rosewood saddle no TOM for me please. Those who claim they get better intonation really do not if the saddle is made correctly. The standard fact is no guitar will be in tune completely and depending on where you spend your time playing on the neck that is where the intonation is critical. I spend my time in the cello registers of the guitar from 2 to 12th fret going up higher really only on the top 2 strings. Intonation at the 17th fret does not effect me. Intonation at the 5th position is by far the most important.
Take it to a competent repair person and get it looked at if you cannot figure it out. MC bridges are the best I know I have an 18 inch Campy and it is a magnificent guitar.
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If the string doesn't slide smoothly over the saddle in the bridge ... you tune it up and it's okay open and for the harmonic.
Then you fret it. If it slides smoothly over the bridge saddle, the entire string stretches, all the way to where it's anchored at both ends. Tailpiece and tuners. So, the amount of necessary displacement increases tension and that tension is partially between bridge and tailpiece.
But, suppose it binds in the bridge saddle. Now all the stretch required to displace the string down to the fret takes place between the bridge and your finger. That's more tension in a shorter length. Won't that cause it to sound sharp? If not, what have I misunderstood?
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Binding strings will affect the intonation as well as the tuning, but it's not consistent, because the binding doesn't always occur at the same place, to the same degree, or for a consistent time. It's a nightmare that needs to be fixed.
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Re reading the post, before putting .012 set with I presume plain G the intonation was good? Originally Posted by mbar65
S
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Yes the plain G was good. The wound G was not. This situation was the same with the original rosewood bridge saddle ( I assume it's original I bought the guitar used) as well as an aftermarket rosewood bridge/saddle I purchased from Stew Mac.
I've ordered another set of strings and will re-set up the guitar with them when I receive them and see what happens.
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If I had the guitar in the shop I would re-carve the top of the bridge on the MC bridge, if I was sure that string going sharp and was strictly from saddle position. This can be done easily but takes some time. Of course I use a wound 3rd and that is my only option at least for me.
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Moving from a plain to a wound G with a bridge correctly compensated for the plain G should make the wound G flat at the 12th. A string that goes very sharp instead must be faulty, the end towards the bridge being lighter than the rest. Such a string will still give a reasonably octave 2nd harmonic. Winding unevenness is more common in tape wounds but also occurs in round wounds because of tension variations in the winding wire as it is applied. Originally Posted by mbar65
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"The standard fact is no guitar will be in tune completely and depending on where you spend your time playing on the neck that is where the intonation is critical. " DeaconMark
Hi, D,
Exactly . . . and one can easily adjust fingering/position on the aberrant fret and get very close to pitch where it is not glaring.
Marinero
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Try to tune the G string at the 7th fret and see if that sounds better.
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How off is "quite a bit?"
Can you compromise a bit by sliding the whole bridge back a small amount?
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I would just change the G Originally Posted by mbar65
The other strings are good ....
(its a good thing to only change one thing at a time when
fault finding)
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...it was a bad G string. What the? I should throw this and the other $25 set of La Bellas I bought at the local shop back at the proprietor. New set of 013s and intonation issue is gone. Thanks to everyone who contributed their knowledge to me trying to figure this out. In the meantime I bought a rosewood bridge I don't need. I guess I now have to build another archtop for the new bridge.
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Email LaBella
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Hi mbar - I think you did contact me about this and sent a pic, right? If I remember correctly, your bridge saddle looked like someone had modified it to accommodate a plain 3rd string - if that's the case, and the new saddle you bought is compensated for a wound 3rd, you should get better intonation using the new saddle - Originally Posted by mbar65
...it was a bad G string. What the? I should throw this and the other $25 set of La Bellas I bought at the local shop back at the proprietor. New set of 013s and intonation issue is gone. Thanks to everyone who contributed their knowledge to me trying to figure this out. In the meantime I bought a rosewood bridge I don't need. I guess I now have to build another archtop for the new bridge.
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...how many cents is it sharp?
in case you do not play country *never* tune for the open strings. If we talk about 3-4 cents, it is not a big deal, tune your g string 2 cent lower, you will get a perfect tune in the range 5-9 and will have one cent sharp over 12 fret.
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I usually tune at the 5th fret, because it's in the general vicinity of where I mostly play. Depending on the guitar and the strings, it may be slightly out of tune with open strings, especially the G string. Tuning at the 5th or 7th fret gives better intonation of all the strings for me, and especially the G, which is often off. Using a different gauge of G string would probably help, but it's more trouble than I'm willing to go to for minor intonation issues. If it were worse, I would probably buy a bunch of single G strings. Thankfully, I can live with what I get.
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