Guitar Refret

**Bryan T** · 02-09-2013, 10:17 PM

It transformed from a guitar that was really good to one that is fantastic. It plays buzz free all over the neck, with low action, and seems more in-tune. I'd highly recommend Leland at Westwood Music in Los Angeles if you need work done.

Bryan

**docbop** · 02-09-2013, 10:28 PM

Cool.

I've been to Westwood Music a zillion times and never seen a guitar in the plek station. How long does it take?

**Flyin' Brian** · 02-09-2013, 10:38 PM

Congratulations. It's amazing process that makes a huge difference.

**fumblefingers** · 02-09-2013, 10:53 PM

Doc - it usually takes a few hours for the "first generation" machines. (I just made up that title). The new machines are faster. i dont know which model this business owner uses.

**henryrobinett** · 02-09-2013, 11:43 PM

My BASS PLAYER got one of those machines about 3 months ago! He has a bass manufacture ring business, besides other things. I'm waiting for him to tell me that he's gotten his shit together on it before I have him Plek my guitar(s)! He's one of the few people anywhere who has one! I'm very excited.

**docbop** · 02-09-2013, 11:47 PM

Originally Posted by Jabberwocky

I lived around the corner from Westwood Music for two years in the late 90s and never realised it. I thought it was a generic music shop. Never crossed its threshold once. It was right across a shop that sold, err, smoking paraphernalia.

I go back to when the father owned the store and it was mainly orchestra instruments and a few guitars. Then Fred his son took it over and it became the store where all the big groups shopped. The store moved a couple times but is now is back a couple doors away from where the original store was. Fred was always the biggest hearted guy and alway helping musicians out. I loved his view on instruments, that they are made to play and he loved handing someone a real 50's strat or last time I saw Fred he handed me a 40's D'Angelico to checkout. Fred's isn't there anymore not sure if he just retired from day to day running of the store or he sold it. It's still a nice store, but not the same without Fred.

**Patrick2** · 02-10-2013, 12:30 AM

Hey Brian T . . . just wondering if you stayed there to watch the process. "A few hours" . . sounds like it's too lengthy for that process. I brought one of my Golden Eagles down to Phil Jacoby of Philtones in Baltimore. Watched the whole process. Probably somewhere around an hour or so . . start to finish. Phil's Plek wasn't the latest model when he bought it . . . and it was about 3 years ago when I went there. But, I agree . . . the neck was pretty good before he touched it, but perfect when after he completed the Plek.

I did it more out of curiousity than anything else. Glad I did!

**Bryan T** · 02-10-2013, 01:16 AM

It was probably 2 hours start to finish - restring (I went to a heavier gauge), put in a new bone nut, adjust the truss rod, Plek the frets, cut the nut, restring, finish the setup. The time in the machine wasn't the majority of it. I had a new bone nut cut, which added to the time (cut the bone to fit, rough cut the slots, have the Plek machine cut the slots, polish the nut). Measuring/cutting the frets might take 20-30 minutes. But there is still setup/restringing that happens after the guitar comes out of the machine. The frets are like jewels and the guitar pays great.

**edh** · 02-10-2013, 01:26 AM

So what was the bill for plek'ing.

**OPherman47** · 02-10-2013, 03:09 AM

If your in Nashville or the southeast for that matter Joe Glaser at glaser instruments is the guy to go to. He invented it/developed it. Also taught Dan Erlewine how to use it if you need a reference. Great way to go if you give a rip about tuning.

**kris** · 02-10-2013, 04:04 AM

Introduction to Plek Technology Berlin - YouTube!

Great technology!

**Patrick2** · 02-10-2013, 11:13 AM

I'm glad that Kris posted that video. Joe Glaser was not the inventor. He just might be the best and most knowledgeable "Plek Tech" . . in the country . . but, he certainly didn't invent it. He trained quite a few guitar techs on the proper useage of it, including Phil Jacoby, who did my guitar.

To answer the question of . . "how much it costs" . . I believe you'll find the price to be anywhere between $150 to $225 . . just for the Plek process. To the OP's claim that the guitar plays better than ever . . and a follow up claim, that in now "plays like a jewel . . it's quite important that he came back and further explained what took 3 hours or so, particularly his explanation of the other things his tech did to achieve those great results.

If someone is contemplating walking in to a shop that has a Plek machine, and getting out "on the cheap" . . by telling the shop . . . "hey man . . the guitar's basically fine . . I just want the frets leveled with the Plek machine" . . . do yourself a favor. Go to a competent tech and have him/her level and crown the frets the good old fashin way . . . save yourself some money.

If you want a good, knowledgeable and competent Plek technician to do your guitar, then make sure you trust the tech enough to tell him . . . "do what ever you feel is necessary and appropriate to achieve optimal results and a perfect guitar". What the OP did was the appropriate way to take best advantage of the Plek. Let the guiitar tech determine what you do or don't need.

Keep in mind, the final step when Pleking a guitar . . is a fine polish of the frets with 0000 gauge steel wool. A Plek will not polish the frets.

**OPherman47** · 02-10-2013, 02:56 PM

I was under the impression that Joe had direct input on the development etc.... I stand corrected... good info here from Patrick

**Patrick2** · 02-10-2013, 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by OPherman47

I was under the impression that Joe had direct input on the development etc.... I stand corrected... good info here from Patrick

Well . . . ya gotta give Kris some credit here too. I think he picked up on it also, that's why he posted the link up. Either way . . . no biggie . . .

Also, Kris is the guy who forwarded me the 'scribed head for Joy Spring. I am forever grateful!

**Philco** · 02-11-2013, 02:46 AM

Anyone know of a Plek Machine in Australia? I searched the web and it sounds like there might be one in Sydney but I'm not sure where.

**Bryan T** · 02-11-2013, 11:03 AM

The Plek site lists this shop: Home

**Chrome** · 02-11-2013, 11:15 AM

So, how do you determine if a guitar would profit from being plekked?

**PTChristopher** · 02-11-2013, 12:59 PM

>>> So, how do you determine if a guitar would profit from being plekked?

In my opinion there are two things that the Plek system does:

1. It allows a very knowledgeable person to nail fret leveling and relief (including differential, bass vs. treble relief) without significant manual skill in the equation. This can be a good thing under some circumstances.

2. It automates complex observation and calculation when the neck has a compound bow (often an "S" bow) that looks significantly different under tension vs. when the strings are off and the rod is relaxed.

And in manufacturing:

3. It probably speeds things up when limited custom control is applied.

So,...

>>> So, how do you determine if a guitar would profit from being plekked?

For one player with one guitar:

If there is a significant problem with relief that is unbalanced, or a significant "S" bow that disappears when the tension is released,

AND

You or your luthier determine that there is not the attention to detail, or manual skill or experience, available to deal with this condition,

Then in my opinion,

The Plek will give a superior result.

Others may certainly conclude otherwise.

Chris

**Chrome** · 02-11-2013, 01:12 PM

Thanks, Chris. As always, I appreciate your insights.

**docbop** · 02-11-2013, 01:22 PM

A question comes to mind why aren't there more places that have Plek stations, they've been around long enough that they should be available more. I see a few scattered around and Gibson hang tags on many model come saying they were Plek'd. So is the cost of the Plek station so high most can't afford it, or is it a good craftsman can do he same thing just take longer.

Also do they alway make a new nut when Plek'ing. The one guitar I'm considering my GB10 has a combo brass/plastic nut I like and prefer to keep.

**Bryan T** · 02-11-2013, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by docbop

A question comes to mind why aren't there more places that have Plek stations, they've been around long enough that they should be available more. I see a few scattered around and Gibson hang tags on many model come saying they were Plek'd. So is the cost of the Plek station so high most can't afford it, or is it a good craftsman can do he same thing just take longer.

As I understand it, a Plek machine is around $100K. That's probably hard for a typical repair shop to justify.

Also do they alway make a new nut when Plek'ing. The one guitar I'm considering my GB10 has a combo brass/plastic nut I like and prefer to keep.

No. I wanted a new nut on the guitar. The stock nut was plastic and not cut very well.

**vejesse** · 02-11-2013, 05:13 PM

When I hear from someone who claims to have experienced a revelation after having a PLEK machine level their frets, I always wonder if they ever had a top notch fret job performed on that guitar. Fret work is a specialized skill these days, in fact the art has advanced so much I'd say it's really more like a sub set of the trade. And from what I've seen many guitar luthiers and guitar makers don't really have those chops perfectly honed. It's challenging work. That's why I understand the appeal of the PLEK, especially for production use where it actually earns it's keep. But I hope people realize that there are guys out there who can refret your guitar with their own hands and do an outstanding job.

**Flyin' Brian** · 02-11-2013, 05:40 PM

Originally Posted by vejesse

When I hear from someone who claims to have experienced a revelation after having a PLEK machine level their frets, I always wonder if they ever had a top notch fret job performed on that guitar. Fret work is a specialized skill these days, in fact the art has advanced so much I'd say it's really more like a sub set of the trade. And from what I've seen many guitar luthiers and guitar makers don't really have those chops perfectly honed. It's challenging work. That's why I understand the appeal of the PLEK, especially for production use where it actually earns it's keep. But I hope people realize that there are guys out there who can refret your guitar with their own hands and do an outstanding job.

No doubt and I've seen/played some of those fret jobs. But the nice thing about the PLEK is that it is infinitely repeatable. Joe Glaser has a PLEK file in his shop of how he did my guitar. If I send him another he can duplicate it exactly.

**PTChristopher** · 02-11-2013, 05:50 PM

Hiya VJ - 100% agreed.

>>> Fret work is a specialized skill these days,

I have been at this sort of thing in one way or another for quite a while now. If I think about what a fret job went for in 1980, it cost more then than now (adjusted for inflation of dollars and egos). And in my experience, it was every bit as specialized then as now. Hack jobs have been about as common throughout my adult life as best I can tell (which can of course mean that I am culpable somehow,...).

And finding truly flat files has never been easy. I gave up on mill files a long time ago. But I am still an old-fashioned crown guy - using a custom ground triangular file still seems notably faster to me than a "crowning file". It is just so much easier to see and feel what you are doing.

But really seeing and fixing a mild "S" bow that disappears when the string tension is released, while rare, is really very tricky - and I can see the serious value of the Plek in this one particular condition.

Still blathering,...

When really in the "zone", as they say, an experienced luthiator can level and crown even a pesky-condition set of frets remarkably quickly, and with remarkable accuracy. I suspect that you are right than many have simply never experienced a very, very good nut set-up and fret cleanup.

Nothing at all against the superb and ever-evolving/improving Plek system. Good is good, and robotic good is no exception.

Chris

**vejesse** · 02-11-2013, 06:13 PM

I'm no Luddite. But I consider the PLEK machine in a special, marginal class. Even though it's just as pricey or in cases more so, it's not nearly as valuable to the world at large as the average "conventional" CNC machine tool, at least not yet. There's nothing a PLEK machine can do that a human being isn't capable of doing if that human being "has the right stroke".