Worn frets - replace or file down?

[j4zz]

Would you replace these frets, or file them down and re-level everything.

[Hep To The Jive]

Filing frets down killed my tele neck. A tech guy talked me into it, but after that that sound became plinky, like strrings hitting fretboard too much, I had to replace the neck. I'd rather do re fret.

[j4zz]

Filing frets down killed my tele neck. A tech guy talked me into it, but after that that sound became plinky, like strrings hitting fretboard too much, I had to replace the neck. I'd rather do re fret.

I am thinking it would actually be easier anyway. Probably only need to replace the first 4 or 5 frets.

[pauln]

How does it feel and sound?

My guitar's frets started out as jumbo when new; that was almost four decades ago. Now the frets are very worn down (look like strips of Christmas tree tinsel laid across the finger board ) and the finger board itself is worn so that it is slightly scalloped between what is left of the frets. Everyone that sees it says I'm way overdue for some work on it.

I will never "fix" it. It plays easy and sounds wonderful. I like a little higher action than most so there is never any buzzing; I won't tolerate that.

The thing is, when frets are new the strings approximate a point contact when fretted which makes the sounding string length very well defined, very precise. What that means is that the pitch frequency is very narrow. Worn frets have flatter wider tops and the string makes a line contact with the fret top. The line contact makes the pitch frequency precision somewhat diffuse - the frequency is centered in a little segment of pitch frequency diffusion, not out of tune but just a more complex tone that is a little wider, softer.

On the occasions when I play a guitar in a shop the first thing I notice is the tight lack of pitch precision diffusion - the tone is thin.

I guess what I'm suggesting is to first decide if it still feels good and sounds good.

[j4zz]

How does it feel and sound?

My guitar's frets started out as jumbo when new; that was almost four decades ago. Now the frets are very worn down (look like strips of Christmas tree tinsel laid across the finger board ) and the finger board itself is worn so that it is slightly scalloped between what is left of the frets. Everyone that sees it says I'm way overdue for some work on it.

I will never "fix" it. It plays easy and sounds wonderful. I like a little higher action than most so there is never any buzzing; I won't tolerate that.

The thing is, when frets are new the strings approximate a point contact when fretted which makes the sounding string length very well defined, very precise. What that means is that the pitch frequency is very narrow. Worn frets have flatter wider tops and the string makes a line contact with the fret top. The line contact makes the pitch frequency precision somewhat diffuse - the frequency is centered in a little segment of pitch frequency diffusion, not out of tune but just a more complex tone that is a little wider, softer.

On the occasions when I play a guitar in a shop the first thing I notice is the tight lack of pitch precision diffusion - the tone is thin.

I guess what I'm suggesting is to first decide if it still feels good and sounds good.

If I follow your thinking to the logical conclusion, the frets would slow their wearing as the line of contact gets thicker, and guitars would hardly ever need refetting. However, I was just taking to a guy who plays guitar for a living (on cruise ships, every night nearly , 3 or 4 times a night) and he has had his acoustic guitar (a nice Taylor) refretted 13 times.

To answer your question, this guitar is still playable, but it is starting to feel like I have to press my fingers too hard against the fingerboard, to get the notes to sound cleanly. So, I do want to fix it, not leave it as is.

[garybaldy]

Is it just me, but having bought all sorts of used guitars over the last 60 years, none of them have had worn fret issues and, of the ones I've bought new, I have never had fret wear problems. I thought I played them loads but may be not. I'm not a string breaker either.

[Sigmund451]

Looks to me like there is a whole lot of material left to level and crown them. I bet it will play way better. I dont think you are near where you need to replace them. Its kinda hard to tell just from photos but those frets look like they were pretty high to begin with. If you are going to do it yourself and you have limited skills the worse you need is a full refret. Or you could take it to a luthier and have the really worn ones replaced. Then a good leveling and crowning. Ive learned to do my own basic work being far from any shop.

[John A.]

Would you replace these frets, or file them down and re-level everything.

I do my own level/re-crown work, but not refretting. It looks to me like there’s enough fret left there for leveling/recrowning (which costs only my time), so that’s what I’d do. If it didn’t work I’d then look at refretting.
.

[John A.]

Is it just me, but having bought all sorts of used guitars over the last 60 years, none of them have had worn fret issues and, of the ones I've bought new, I have never had fret wear problems. I thought I played them loads but may be not. I'm not a string breaker either.

You have a bunch of guitars, right? The more guitars you play, the less fret wear each experiences. That combined with a light touch can mean almost never needing fret work.

I’ve only ever had to refret two guitars (one after 35 or so years, the other after a dozen-ish, but both with tons of use and multiple level/re-crown jobs). But I also play a lot of blues (and probably do more string-bending than most jazz players) with those guitars.

[Sigmund451]

Play faster.

Your frets wont have time to wear

[garybaldy]

You have a bunch of guitars, right? The more guitars you play, the less fret wear each experiences. That combined with a light touch can mean almost never needing fret work.

I’ve only ever had to refret two guitars (one after 35 or so years, the other after a dozen-ish, but both with tons of use and multiple level/re-crown jobs). But I also play a lot of blues (and probably do more string-bending than most jazz players) with those guitars.

I do loads of string bending on my guitars with 10s but not so much on the 13s!

[sgosnell]

If it were my guitar, I would just do a level/recrown. Properly done the sound and playability should be fine, but an action adjustment will likely be required. Take it down too low, and you can get some fret buzzes, and also buzzes at certain frets if the level isn't done perfectly. It's easy enough to raise the action back up if set too low, but uneven frets are an abomination, and require a re-level. It shouldn't be that expensive to have it done by a professional, but finding a true professional can be difficult.

[John A.]

I do loads of string bending on my guitars with 10s but not so much on the 13s!

I actually do a fair amount of bending on the one guitar I string with 13's, but they're TI Jazz Swings, which are heavy strings for wimps.

[j4zz]

Looks to me like there is a whole lot of material left to level and crown them. I bet it will play way better. I dont think you are near where you need to replace them. Its kinda hard to tell just from photos but those frets look like they were pretty high to begin with. If you are going to do it yourself and you have limited skills the worse you need is a full refret. Or you could take it to a luthier and have the really worn ones replaced. Then a good leveling and crowning. Ive learned to do my own basic work being far from any shop.

I have a fair bit of experience doing my own stuff. I have replaced frets in guitars before, and built necks from scratch. Definitely only need the first 4 or 5 replaced here, at worst. It's more about what is easier. That's a lot of material to remove from all the other frets to get them down as far as the grooves worn in the frets that are pictured.

[Sigmund451]

If you can do that then go for it. You probably keep more material on the others and thus extend the life of the fret job longer. I draw the line at chaging frets but if you have done it then why not!

[j4zz]

If you can do that then go for it. You probably keep more material on the others and thus extend the life of the fret job longer. I draw the line at chaging frets but if you have done it then why not!

I avoided it for a long time, but like many jobs, it is not as bad as you imagine. Just get the right tools of course. As this guitar was purchased new, I don't expect complications like glued in frets. They should pull cleanly.

Yes, keeping all the material of the rest of the frets is one of the reasons I am now leaning towards replacing the worn ones.

[Aiq]

I myself would get a refret with that level of wear.

I can do leveling, crowning, polishing and have done to deal with high frets.

To fix those deep divots removing that much material may lead to problems with neighboring frets.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

[j4zz]

I myself would get a refret with that level of wear.

I can do leveling, crowning, polishing and have done to deal with high frets.

To fix those deep divots removing that much material may lead to problems with neighboring frets.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

Yes the transition to nearly unworn frets would not work well I suspect, unless all the other frets were filed down to the same level as the notches.

[deacon Mark]

I would dress the frets but of course you have to do the whole fingerboard. Looks like plenty of room to me.

[wintermoon]

yes a level especially if you're doing it yourself, it'll save you some $ rather than having a pro do it now and sinking more $ into it later when you have to pay for a refret.

[j4zz]

yes a level especially if you're doing it yourself, it'll save you some $ rather than having a pro do it now and sinking more $ into it later when you have to pay for a refret.

Not really, as I would do the refret myself also. I guess the question is about the effort/time vs the end result. Replacing the 4 or 5 worn frets results in a guitar with all good high frets, which is better than filing off all that good material on the majority of the frets that are unworn. Cost of a bit of fret wire is nothing.

[GuyBoden]

There is plenty of metal left on them frets. As you probably already knew, a good fret dressing is the obvious solution.

In the past, I've known some players playing with very badly worn frets. (Punk Rockers)

[Sigmund451]

For my taste (and trying to judge from photos) they seem a bit high anyway. Even with material gone and properly finished they will probably feel a lot better at the leveled out height. I dont like invisible frets but Im not a fan of speed bumps either.

[John A.]

Not really, as I would do the refret myself also. I guess the question is about the effort/time vs the end result. Replacing the 4 or 5 worn frets results in a guitar with all good high frets, which is better than filing off all that good material on the majority of the frets that are unworn. Cost of a bit of fret wire is nothing.

My experience has been that divots tend to look deeper than they really are. What appears to be a deep divot often doesn't actually require removing all that much material to get it level (and you can leave a small remainder of divot that crowning and polishing will take care of). With the caveat that I don't know how tall those frets currently are or how tall you prefer them to be post-level/crown, I've definitely had frets that look similar that came out fine (to me, anyway) after leveling/crowning.

Maybe measure the height at the point of deepest wear? If you subtract .001"-ish from that that will tell you what height the leveled frets will be. How low is too low is very much a YMMV thing, but you should be able to compare that to your other guitars to get a sense of whether that height will be OK for you. For me, when the frets got so low that my crowning file didn't touch the fret tops, I knew it was time.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Not really, as I would do the refret myself also. I guess the question is about the effort/time vs the end result. Replacing the 4 or 5 worn frets results in a guitar with all good high frets, which is better than filing off all that good material on the majority of the frets that are unworn. Cost of a bit of fret wire is nothing.

The main question is whether you like your frets higher or lower. If the rest are unworn (which would be a little odd on a guitar used for jazz), and you prefer higher frets, replace the worn ones, set it up, and enjoy. If you prefer them a bit lower (as do I), I agree with the rest that the worn frets in your pics are far from terminal. Especially if the fretwork is excellent and the fingerboard and neck are pristine, refretting risks chipping etc. Even if you're as good at it as the best luthiers, occasional marring requires expert fill and finishing. Why bother with all that if a L/C/P will leave you with a beautiful neck and a great playing guitar?