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Hi
so I have asked a few dumb questions before but can you shorten the scale on an archtop? from 25.5 to 25 or even better 24 3/4 ? The reason I ask is that nice arch tops in affordable price ranges are scarce in the UK.
I was wondering about adding a zero fret or something. Thanks so much cheers
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03-03-2025 04:28 AM
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I don't think you can do it, as the fret positions would all be wrong.
Zero fret is the worst idea I've seen on guitars, after a while it develops dents and the guitar plays subpar because of it.
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Theoretically yes - you just have to
- take out all the frets
- then close and seal all the slots
- then calculate the new positions of the frets based on the new scale
- then you have to saw the new fret slots
- then insert the new frets
- then sand
- polish
- round off the ends ...
....and you're done, it wasn't that bad after all, was it?
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ok cool, I thought it would need a new fretboard but I guess the inlays will have to be taken into account but thanks for the help so far cheers
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.. or, just use a capo.
Originally Posted by DonEsteban
Theoretically yes - you just have to
- take out all the frets
- then close and seal all the slots
- then calculate the new positions of the frets based on the new scale
- then you have to saw the new fret slots
- then insert the new frets
- then sand
- polish
- round off the ends ...
....and you're done, it wasn't that bad after all, was it?
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You'll also have to move the bridge and potentially the bridge pickup in this solution. Still the pickup placement would end up being non standard without shortening the neck. Originally Posted by DonEsteban
Theoretically yes - you just have to
- take out all the frets
- then close and seal all the slots
- then calculate the new positions of the frets based on the new scale
- then you have to saw the new fret slots
- then insert the new frets
- then sand
- polish
- round off the ends ...
....and you're done, it wasn't that bad after all, was it?
Last edited by Tal_175; 03-03-2025 at 10:03 AM.
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Well, that must be hard on an archtop! Originally Posted by Tal_175
And it's only if you want to keep the neck join fret at the same place.
Using a capo is the easiest solution indeed, if you can find one that doesn't hinder tuning too much.
Note that The Loar archtops have the short Gibson scale (630mm or so) and they're I think they're commonly accepted as the best nice-to-affordable compromise.
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I just bought one of these
TriAction Capo | Accessories | D'Addario
it’s really really good , even pressure
(don’t have to retune)
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mmm a capo. Now that is a thing I have not heard about for a long time. So I guessing put the capo on first fret, tune guitar down a semitone and then the second fret would be your first fret. I guess then you would just move the position markers on the side of the neck as using a capo and looking at inlays would fry my brain
thanks for the tip I think that might work
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Yeah, I'm not advocating for that solution. I would get a conversion neck and replace the necks if I really, really had to change the scale length of a guitar. Originally Posted by RJVB
Well, that must be hard on an archtop!
And it's only if you want to keep the neck join fret at the same place.
Using a capo is the easiest solution indeed, if you can find one that doesn't hinder tuning too much.
Note that The Loar archtops have the short Gibson scale (630mm or so) and they're I think they're commonly accepted as the best nice-to-affordable compromise.
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You don't have Ibanez in the UK?
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Or Epiphone. Originally Posted by AllanAllen
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That's unfortunate... Originally Posted by Tal_175
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No, I am also adding Epiphone to your question. Originally Posted by AllanAllen
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Yes guys, there are zero 24 3/4 scale affordable archtops in the UK. Dur dur. Sounds like someone needs to have a conversation with the bot. How about: 'what are my options to buy an affordable 24 3/4 inch scale archtop in the UK?'
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What's your budget? I'll find you some 24.75" archtops in the UK. Originally Posted by Heybopper
Hi
so I have asked a few dumb questions before but can you shorten the scale on an archtop? from 25.5 to 25 or even better 24 3/4 ? The reason I ask is that nice arch tops in affordable price ranges are scarce in the UK.
I was wondering about adding a zero fret or something. Thanks so much cheers
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Maybe it's just me, but I don't feel any difference. I have guitars with nominal 24.75", 25", and 25.5" scale lengths, and I have no problem switching between them in any order. It's just not an issue with me. I actually have to stop and think about what the scale length is on whatever I'm playing if I feel the need to know. There is a slight difference in string feel, but there always is between guitars, and it's not something that makes much of a difference to me.
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The 25.5 affordable guitar , with the modifications, could likely become unaffordable. Originally Posted by Heybopper
Hi
so I have asked a few dumb questions before but can you shorten the scale on an archtop? from 25.5 to 25 or even better 24 3/4 ? The reason I ask is that nice arch tops in affordable price ranges are scarce in the UK.
I was wondering about adding a zero fret or something. Thanks so much cheers
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Hi
Thanks for the comments and help. Im fussy. Ive had the Ibanez, Gibson 350, l5, Johnny Smith, campellone, Borys, triggs, guild, slaman plus others.
for years I had a 175. I never even considered what scale length it was, I just played it and it was great but it was the only guitar I had since getting into Jazz. When my parents died I got a very small inheritance and wondered about these high end arch tops in the £3000-£4000 range that was in 2014.
so I bought the guitars as above. 1 at a time, importing them all from the USA and paying customs ( still cheaper than buying in the UK) then selling them all at a loss.
Ive learnt a lot and my guitar now is a D'aquisto Jazz line. It was bought on here for about £1800. Its not my dream guitar but it is a truly fantastic instrument. Intonation is always spot on, no buzzing anywhere despite how low I take the action, no issues and it doesn't feedback not even two feet away from a reverb deluxe and 120watt tech 21 amp and with me being a foot from the drummer.
Ive had it a year now, I tried to sell it on here at £1400 but no takers so I still have it.
so the reason for my post is that there isn't anything that is short scale, 16 inch, Venetian cut with single pickup around £2000-£2500 especially if you dont want Godin, Epiphone, Eastman, and any of those 60s German things. If I lost money on all the other guitars Im going to be very careful about what I buy.
I just dont know how id feel with the d'aquisto and a full size 25.5 scale archtop I might end up not playing the longer scale I dont know but there is a nice full size up for sale but its 25.5 so thought I would ask my dumb question
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I don't have a problem on the low frets, but above the 12th, things get cramped. Originally Posted by sgosnell
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Wait -- you already have a D'Aquisto Jazz line? That IS a 16", venetian cutaway, 24.75" with a single pickup. Why are you asking about shortening your guitar from 25.5" if you already have that? Originally Posted by Heybopper
Wait -- you DON'T have a D'Aquisto Jazz line? Huh? Originally Posted by Heybopper
I just dont know how id feel with the d'aquisto and a full size 25.5 scale archtop I might end up not playing the longer scale I dont know but there is a nice full size up for sale but its 25.5 so thought I would ask my dumb question
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Hi
Yes I have a D'aquisto Jazz line but its the only guitar I have so ive been looking for something else. It might be a good idea to have a second guitar just in case, but I dont want an expensive ornament im sure something will come up its just there has been a nice guitar up for sale in the UK for a while but its 17 inch and 25.5 and I find the D'aquisto very comfy.
If its right that 24 1/34 is the same as 25.5 until it gets past the 12th fret, then that will be fine I didnt know that
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If you mean the fret spacing, it is not right. Every interval between adjacent frets is longer for a longer scale. Originally Posted by Heybopper
If its right that 24 1/34 is the same as 25.5 until it gets past the 12th fret, then that will be fine I didnt know that
Here's the fret spacing for a 24.75" scale:
and here's the same chart for a 25.5" scale:
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Ah, got it. So you want something like what you have, but less expensive? How much less? I know you rejected Ibanez already, but maybe look at their more upscale models, e.g., AF2000 or AF200, or one of the Metheny series? I know you could find something in those ranges for somewhat less than a D'Aquisto in the US (thought not a whole lot less). Maybe one of the MIJ Fender D'Aquistos? Guild? D'Angelico? Originally Posted by Heybopper
Hi
Yes I have a D'aquisto Jazz line but its the only guitar I have so ive been looking for something else. It might be a good idea to have a second guitar just in case, but I dont want an expensive ornament im sure something will come up its just there has been a nice guitar up for sale in the UK for a while but its 17 inch and 25.5 and I find the D'aquisto very comfy.
The distance between frets on the two scale lengths is different at every point on the neck. It's a small difference on the lower frets, that gets smaller (logarithmically so) as you move up the neck). By the time you get to the 12th fret, the difference in fret spacing between the two scale-lengths is infinitesimal. To see for yourself, try playing around with a fret-spacing calculator such as this one. Originally Posted by Heybopper
f its right that 24 1/34 is the same as 25.5 until it gets past the 12th fret, then that will be fine I didnt know that
As a practical matter, something like Johnny-Smith-style stretch chords are more difficult on the lowest maybe 5-7 frets of a 25.5" scale than on a 24.75" scale (maybe significantly so, maybe not, depending on your hand size and flexibility). From the middle of the neck on up the differences are not big enough to make a difference (unless maybe your hands are very very small). Some people say that they find it easier to play on the upper frets on a 25.5" scale-length because it has more space between frets and is less cramped for their fingers, but I don't buy that. The distance between the 12th and 13th on a 24.75" scale is 0.695". On a 25.5, it's 13.466". That's a difference of .021", the width of a plain G string.
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Hi thanks so much for all the info. Im looking to spend £2000 - £2500 now I have been tempted by this though
Guild Guitars | A-150 Vanguard Natural
there are about 5 for sale in the USA but at only £1000 and it has a short scale 17 inch though. I know it needs some things doing to it and it will feedback unless I stuff it with cotton but it looks good for the money.
I had one of these too
MFA-FP / FGN Guitars
I got it for £2000
thats 16 inch and short scale but it didnt sound great but played well. Very bad feedback so that got stuffed as well. When I sold it I could only get £800 for it as no one knows the model here.
Ive had a few Ibanez the 2471 and a really high end fa700 something or other. Very close in build quality and finish to an l5 I think the closest they ever got, I paid £2500 sold it for £1700
That was a good guitar very impressed but couldn't live with a copy.
The other one is the comins cgs1 that nearly ticks all the boxes or a Benedetto bravo they are around £3000 here and some have a 25 scale length.
Ill probably try the capo idea
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