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Hi
I know this is probably a stupid idea but Ive seen it done on a flat top acoustic so just wondering. Im in the UK and arch tops are scarce for under £3000 from what time seeing unless you go for a d'angelico EXL 1 or Eastman. I have a D'aquisto Jazz line that I love and if I could get another, I would have two but they just dont come up for sale that often and hardly ever in the UK.
My budget is around £2000 but im quite fussy. Ive grown to like the 16 inch and short scale, I find it very comfy and I can manage to stretch to all the voicing I use and also this guitar doesn't feedback even with two amps and a drummer. That is beautiful
So my question.... If you could get a battered gibson L50 for under £1000 would it be worth it to fit a Venetian cutaway? Its 16 inch, short scale a few cracks and the finish is beat, but the neck is good. It would be a long term project, I would probably strip my self then pay to get the cutaway added and refinished and then a dearmond pickup and new tailpiece and pick guard.
If I could get all that for £2000 I think id be quite happy. Ive really gone off 17 inch, 25.5 scale, Florentine cutaways and two pickups
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11-21-2024 02:37 PM
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What skills!
Originally Posted by garybaldy
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I think Whit Smith did this to his guitar.
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Originally Posted by garybaldy
The ' is it worth it ? ' question may be the first one to answer, and then always remember the ' I'm quite fussy ' part.....
Unless you can acquire that L-50 for next to nothing, the numbers don't ' pencil out ' as that guy once said ...
Yes, if you can find a guy to do it, a cutaway can be done, as the video shows.......But you may very well find it easier to locate that archtop you want in the UK, than it'd be to find the luthier to satisfactorily do that cutaway......In 50 plus years of playing in a US city of around a million plus, I've known of two capable luthiers through the years who'd do that - -and one retired last year and also last year the other passed away....
But there's always going to be a 'surprise', and it'll always cost money -- your's......
I watched that video, and for sure that guy made it look easy, but I got the impression he wasn't actually looking to do any others ? And did he ever give any estimate for the work ??
And I'd entertained that idea a few years ago, and decided maybe $1000. would be ok to spend, but it didn't matter much because I couldn't find a guy to do it at all - , for any money......
But good luck, and some times it's best to conclude that there are some things ( potential headaches ) best left avoided.....
MHOLast edited by Dennis D; 11-23-2024 at 12:36 PM.
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I think Dennis D's feedback to you is good. Just to add this: I've spoken about this to luthiers and repair folks (I'm in NY area in US, but I also recently spoke to an excellent repair guy in Iceland, where I was performing), and all have advised against it. Of course, it would be money in their pockets to say "Yes, great idea" and have me hire them to do this. So their discouraging this fits with Dennis D's "is it worth it?" theme. I suppose that, if you are personally skilled and very handy with wood working, you could do this for fun. But, between the cost and complications of hiring someone do it for you, I've had the impression that it is not the best solution, and in terms of guitar value, cost, etc., not an advisable plan. (I was considering this for a 1930 non-cutaway L-5) Originally Posted by Dennis D
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Hi
Thanks so much for the advice its much appreciated. Yes you are both right, im in a small village and there is one Luthier 20 miles away and he said no. The Idea was to hopefully get a gibson l50 (the one pictured) for around £800 and then get the work done but they guy said it isn't worth it.
Im always looking on reverb and eBay but 16 inch, Venetian cutaways with one pick up and short scale are hard to find. There is the comins gcs1 at £2300 but ive seen them used at £1600 or the Fujigen mfa at the same price but I had one a few years ago. I liked it but had to stuff it with cotton to eliminate feedback and when I went to sell it I could only get £800 for it.
Im happy with my D'aquisto Jazz line so ill just save and wait for something to come along. I guess im just getting impatient Many thanks for the comments cheers
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HOWARD ROBERTS: "The Black Guitar"
Here's about as well known as a ' highly modified ' guitar gets.....now owned by fellow member Wolf Marshall......
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That's what would happen with an L-50 from which even a skilled luthier took a bite. At a guitar show back in the '80s, I came across an L-50 to which someone had added a Florentine cutaway. To my surprise, it sounded fantastic and played just as well. The workmanship was excellent and the guitar was in decent shape. Yet the seller had been unable to find anyone who was at all interested in buying it at any price for quite some time. I was at the show demo'ing gear for a local music store, so I had to be there until the bitter end. On a lark, I walked around to the seller's booth as we were all packing up to leave on Sunday afternoon and he offered it to me for $300. I offered $200 and we settled on $250. Originally Posted by Heybopper
I had a lot of fun with it for the next 10 years or so. But I switched to 7 strings in the early '90s and sold off all my standard 6 string guitars over the next few years. This L-50 was among the first to be put on sale and one of the last to go. Nobody wanted it until I finally found an open minded buyer like me who just loved the sound as much as I did and didn't mind paying a fair price for a mongrel. IIRC, I got $500 for it. I doubt that I'd have gotten much more even if the cut was done by John D'A or Bob B.
Things are worth what someone will pay for them. But I suspect it'd cost almost as much to buy an L-50 in any kind of decent shape and turn it into an L-4C as it would to buy an L-4C.
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Whit bought his guitar that way. Whit told me that he got a great price because of the non original cutaway and as a player, the cutaway allowed him to get to all the notes he wants. Originally Posted by digger
IMO, buying a non-cut archtop with an added cutaway can be fine so long as you buy it at a great price and so long as you know it will be difficult to sell. Paying a luthier to add a cutaway to a non-cut guitar is a bad move on many levels.
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This late 40's Emperor was fitted with the cutaway at the Gibson plant sometime in the 60's , refinished and rebound. IMHO a super job, the guitar plays and sounds absolutely fabulous and the acoustic tone/volume is on par with any other Emperor I've heard and played.
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That looks like a Sam Koontz finish and guard.
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And here's a 16 inch, w/more than one mod....
1934 Gibson L-7 (Modded) Cutaway Archtop Acoustic/Electric Guitar
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Hi
yes I saw that L7 but sadly they got the cutaway shape wrong. Ill keep looking and let you know if I find anything thanks for all your help, cheers
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I love the bit where he says it really doesn't have any value anymore! Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
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Making a cutaway out of a non-cutaway is just crazy to be honest. Just buy a cutaway of what you need those who do this conversion I think need some counseling. Naturally on cheap guitars it does not matter but the is the point.............just get what you want cheap if need be. It will be better by far.
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I've done it on two guitars. They were mine. I intend to keep them as mine forever (no worry about "lost value") and as playing guitars, I need that fret access. I'm also a luthier so hey, it takes a great guitar and makes it more playable. I've never regretted it. One was a nylon string classical, the other was a 1938 L-10 with a neck that needed to be replaced. Both came out great and are loved and played constantly now, the best fate for any instrument.
It might be noted that the florentine cutaway was originally designed as a cutaway for guitars that were graduated as non cutaways, and this has been a difference of opinion, whether to graduate to a cutaway or arch and graduate symmetrically and then cut the bout.
In the end, it can be done. Your decision.
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Originally Posted by garybaldy
And did I hear him also say the guitar didn't ' owe him anything when he started ' ?
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My ‘39 Epi Emperor, purchased last April, for relatively little money, in the most pitiful, hacked condition. The cutaway had been created, but not properly completed. After MUCH work(I’m a luthier), it is now as you see it…but not done! It plays great and sounds wonderful: I don’t think I would have made the cutaway myself on a model like this, in good condition, but this has turned out to be my most favorite archtop of all, and I’ve owned a few. I love having the cutaway, for access to the higher frets. It’s been a great deal of time and effort(and I have yet to tackle the cutaway binding), and would be very expensive were I to do it for a paying customer.
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Right? It's often that I think the best part of being a luthier is realizing the potential in an otherwise lost cause. An instrument takes on a special quality once something that was not right is put right. The hardest part of making a good cutaway is bending a side that tight. But it's an alteration I take delight in every time I pick up my guitar and play up the neck. Originally Posted by daverepair
To be honest though, I can hear the sound of that bandsaw in my mind to this very day. There's something VERY distinct about cutting a whole corpus on a bandsaw; the body really screams. It's LOUD.
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I recall a story about Kenny Burrell wanting a cutaway on his D'Angelico. He went to his shop to have a cutaway made and D'Angelico took out a saw and made a cut in the guitar right there. Maybe the story is in the D'Angelico book.
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Isn’t that only a problem for Venetian cuts? Originally Posted by Jimmy blue note
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The only man on earth who would have DARED a move like that. But I'll bet he did a great job and I'll bet Kenny loved it. What a story! Kenny must've had a heart attack. Originally Posted by zephyrregent
It reminds me of a story. A woman brought her violin into the shop to have a crack addressed. On a violin, this is best done by removal of the plate from the ribs; it's not an uncommon practice. A skilled luthier with a thin blade can do this in one deft movement: Wedge it in and one decisive movement, it's off. If you're hesitant, it could be disastrious if not catastrophic.
The woman loved this violin. She was reluctant to let it out of her hands. She brought it in and my colleague looked it over, brought it to the bench and signaled for me to escort the client out of the shop. "Oh no. I'm staying. I want to see you at work on my baby." My colleague shrugs, shakes his head, holds the violin up by the neck, slips a sharp edged putty knife in at the corner and in one movement lets loose a loud CRACK! that resonated through the entire shop. Then the sound of something big hitting the floor.
She had fainted.
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Florentine (rounded bout) are usually not as deep and if you're a hand built luthier, getting the tight bends needed to get in deep can be problematic. It requires two very tight bends in opposite directions and the inside bend gets more acute the deeper the reach. I don't think I've ever seen anyone attempt to put a Venetian in as an after market. Factories that have bending machines and dedicated jigs can do this as a matter of course, but even then, there is danger of splitting if the grain has ANY degree of runout. Matching the sides on a rounded cutaway without a block at the join would be... a challenging work of very impressive woodworking. Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
The sharp edged Florentine requires one curve, and there's some flexibility in the depth of the cutaway from how tight you can bend. So for adding a cutaway to the symmetrical guitar, it's way easier to do a Florentine. I'd guess that's why earlier L-5 guitars appeared with Florentines more than the Venetian we see now; it was easier to adapt to the building practices of the day which favoured the non cutaway full bodied corpus.
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