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The gig world is a buyers market, not a sellers market even for low paid gigs with shitty pay. Especially for low paid gigs.
Last edited by Tal_175; 05-07-2024 at 01:50 PM.
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05-07-2024 12:54 PM
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Doesn't look simple to me. Where you write, "...during...or after...", are you stipulating that one must only not try to book the place for yourself (for another day) the same day of the bandleader's gig, or does "after" extend to the next day, or week, or ever? Or also some time (day, week, month, etc.) before the gig?
Originally Posted by AllanAllen
If the simple meaning is, "Don't try to book places the bandleader's band performs", what about booking of the place for yourself before joining the bandleader's band? Can the bandleader direct you to only play in his band? What if as a member of the bandleader's band you book for yourself at a place they have never played, and then the bandleader books that place? Do you rescind your own gig?
The CA law is about how gig workers are classified as either employees or independent contractors. This particular "don't do" direction looks like something that applies to employees, not contractors (I think maybe musicians in CA want to be contractors rather than employees).
Until a clear meaning is attached to this "don't do", I can't even consider complying with it (bandleader would likely not hire me for asking questions).
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Thats a good point. The California law not being applicable necessarily, but rather an interesting proxy for whether a bandleader is treating his group appropriately. Originally Posted by pauln
The operative thing is that what goes around comes around. Bandleaders who are a bummer are always going to have a bit more staying power than the hired musicians who are a bummer by virtue of being the ones who are paying. But bandleaders who are a bummer end up in the same place eventually.
My first gig in New York was for this swing group doing parties and stuff and the first one I did was New Year’s Eve. I was packing up and the bandleader came up and told me she’d have the check in the mail later that week and I was like … my understand was that we’d be paid tonight. And she was like “oh yeah, I had some stuff come up.”
The check came later that week, but I never took the gig again. And they seemed to do alright for about a year, but eventually they started calling me again. They ran out of folks to put up with it.
Maybe we should do a list of things the bandleader should never do?
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Correct, I would never hire someone if they go legalese on a $150 jazz gig. That kind of thinking will land you on the debate team, not a jazz gig.
Originally Posted by pauln
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What makes a bandleader? Originally Posted by pamosmusic
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I worked for a go-getter band leader thru the 80s who had a knack for booking gigs, but who moved on to work in the USAF band in the 90s. Still sounds like good advice, thanks, but oddly reminds me why I quit gigging.
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If people are really good in music.. I think it is more important.
There is nothing on your list about being on time for gig or no drugs etc. though
and also we can always talk with people
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I know one musican who got fired from a big name act for not doing drugs
But it’s not just illegal narcotics… there are some gigs that come with a heavy drinking culture. It’s part of the hang. Players actually practice drunk so they can be steaming and still nail the gig.
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I think if the venue regularly books bands and has bands on three or four times a week, then I think its ok to approach the venue for your own gig at some point. But if your the only band that the pub has on once a week and your horn player tries to undercut you and do the gig instead of you with there own ensemble on the night your supposed to play, thats a bit out of order and ive seen it happen here in the UK
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The gigging world sounds like something you should get paid well for. Reading this thread, I can’t imagine why people even bother. Is there joy in it anywhere?
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Still beats 9-5 life Originally Posted by Kirk Garrett
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There’s joy in it if you work with good, easy going people. Not much money clearly Originally Posted by Kirk Garrett
Band leaders (which is already a self aggrandizing title for a $100 bar gig) are as much a dime a dozen as good players are. Find guys you get along with who also make good music and that’s all you need.
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I have another question about the guidelines: Is it ok to do H like the greats, or will that get you fired too?
I'm not fucking going out there. Originally Posted by Kirk Garrett
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I'm largely self-taught when it comes to being a band leader. Every time I've taught myself something I found out later there were major holes in my knowledge. Probably no exception this time. That said ...
At the level I'm working at, there isn't enough money for anybody really to make a living at it. Arguably, there isn't enough to maintain a shred of human dignity.
So, the first thing I did was call sidemen, explain the financial side of things with the appropriate denigratory expletives and ask "is this something your wife would let you do?".
Apparently, the spouses couldn't wait to get these guys out of the house.
The reason they all agreed was because they liked the book, which is a couple hundred arrangements of Brazilian tunes.
And, then, as the gigs came and went, everybody got paid, such as it was, the same night in the expected amount.
So, one rule is be clear about the money and do what you say you're going to do. This sounds simple enough, but I keep hearing about situations in which it doesn't happen.
Next rule is to make sure, to the extent possible, that everybody in the band is happy to be there, especially in light of the financial "rewards". There needs to be a good musical experience, a good interpersonal experience and a decent environment (referring to the venue). That can involve some negotiation.
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I get that, but 9-5 life pays bills. Though it isn’t really 9-5. More like 9-7. Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
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In one of Jimmy Bruno’s recent videos, he’s Jonesing for gig work. And I think he’s in Philly.
That told me a lot about my place in the universe. As if I didn’t already know.
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The music life is a calling, much like someone is called to be a priest or monk. The work is demanding, with bad hours, and for people who are intoxicated, and it's low paying but the reward is in the music itself and hopefully, in some of the adventures you take and people you meet doing it. Like being a priest or a monk, it's not for most people so if the wrong person pursues that, he/she will be miserable. Originally Posted by Kirk Garrett
I look at it like one decent gig night=one less day spent at meaningless day job. Simplify your approach and see the benefits. I'd rather be poor than to just have a life of 30 years of 9-5, a brief retirement, then death because I quit working a job I hated. Doesn't sound like a winning combo but if you have first world tastes then it will be required of you unless you have other sources of wealth to expend.
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Youve totally missed the point. Originally Posted by AllanAllen
i don’t want information.
i want an opportunity to complain.
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Sure, as with any kind of artist. But if you have kids in the house, selfishness is pretty limited. Originally Posted by DawgBone
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I've never run into issues with people being late. It has never happened once since I started playing jazz gigs 2-3 years ago. Same with drugs, never seen people getting high on gigs. I play with mostly old guys who did all their drugs decades ago. And man are these guys on time! My main drummer is an hour early for every gig. People ask me for lots of parking details just to make sure they don't get delayed.
As far as "where is the joy in it" trust me it's got plenty of joy. The joy is in the music and good vibes. When you hear "hmmm that solo wasn't my best playing" every other song that is what takes the joy out of it. And when you're standing around waiting for a guy flipping pages while the audience awkwardly stares at you, that unprofessional stuff is what removes the joy.
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Makes sense - the only thing more insufferable than a musician with a gig is a musician without a gig Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
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Even if you don't have kids being serious about guitar or music pretty much infers a level of selfishness with your time. I had kids but was a less miserable SOB when I was making money through music vs other jobs. It's really not much different than having a job working overnights except you need to be more flexible to make those ducats. Originally Posted by Kirk Garrett
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Hmm. Maybe this was the case in the days when health insurance was affordable to buy yourself. Originally Posted by DawgBone
I mean, I’ve read this thread and seen the comments about gig pay. Holy crap!
I used to do non-jazz gigs pre-pandemic. The best paying ones were also the least musical, in which we were basically wallpaper. Not arty. Not inspiring.
The more musical, expressive gigs paid nothing much.
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The trick is probably to have both, so also a job that brings in the real money, and ideally a rewarding one where you have enough autonomy and flexibility to support your musical endeavours. Originally Posted by DawgBone
Can't resist posting this one again. It's got some pretty accurate and relevant observations
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8-4 and at 4 I close my laptop and walk away. They literally can't pay me enough to compensate missing my kids childhood. I'm not a surgeon, the data will still be there in the morning. Originally Posted by Kirk Garrett
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