Playing with an accordionist

[kpguitar]

Any advice for playing with an accordionist? I've been playing in a guitar-accordion duo off and on for a couple years. We play a mix of styles, but jazz standards are particularly challenging because my partner is constantly comping, and his solos are an impenetrable wall of notes, so there's no opportunity to interact. I usually just plunk out chords every beat. Sometimes I can manage to play walking bass line if he stays off his bass buttons. Any suggestions?

[Christian Miller]

Any advice for playing with an accordionist? I've been playing in a guitar-accordion duo off and on for a couple years. We play a mix of styles, but jazz standards are particularly challenging because my partner is constantly comping, and his solos are an impenetrable wall of notes, so there's no opportunity to interact. I usually just plunk out chords every beat. Sometimes I can manage to play walking bass line if he stays off his bass buttons. Any suggestions?

Oh god one of those.

The problem is once they’ve learned how to do that there’s often no stopping them haha!

This is an exercise in headology and social skills methinks. That counts me out. Anyone?

[ronjazz]

Consider yourself the tasteful one and don't worry about it. Also, try the Herb Ellis/Ray Crawford method of playing bongos on the guitar by "slapping" your strings on bass notes that agree with the key you're in, especially on Latin tunes. Learn to pay "horn" hits like a big band when comping. I play quite often with one of the best in the world, and that's what I do to be a useful part of the equation, and we get along really well doing that. As far as soloing is concerned, we guitarists almost never will be able to produce the blizzard of notes a good keyboardist can, so we'll have to play melodic, thoughtful solos, giving the audience a chance to relax for a minute. In the long run, if there is one, you need to point out your partner's overplaying when it's your turn to solo. It sounds like he may be the leader, so you're kind of stuck unless you can get more creative. If you're the leader, then lead.

[Jimmy blue note]

Art Van Damme and Johnny Smith had a really nice Guitar/accordian duo.

Are you familiar with Quequi Sinesi?

It's not necessarily anything specific to the instrumentation but rather the personalities of players and their vision of what they're making together. If the accordian player just hears himself, you just need to sit back and let it be, sometimes.
There are ways a keyboardist thinks of their role/instrument and it might be worthwhile to actually discuss this with your partner, try out different ways to re-define your roles. Maybe he thinks you can't hold the sound without him playing so "heavy", or again, it might be that that's all he can do.
Think of the music. If you can't imagine adding anything musical... lay out. For the music's sake.

[Stringswinger]

I often do duo gigs with an accordionist. When I am soloing, he plays a bass line with one hand and comps chords with the other. When he is soloing, he plays the bass line with one hand and single note lines with the other, while I comp chords. It works well.

It sounds like you need to work out roles with your duo partner in a way that lets you do what you want to do.

[pingu]

i see this as the same issue as playing
with any keyboard player , pno , organ etc

this should be a musical conversation

I play with a pno player who sometimes leaves no space ....
so I just lay out a lot and sometimes drop in a guide-tone-line in octaves and yes , big band horn type stabs ,
this works ok ....

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

It’s also quite possible that your musical partner doesn’t realize how heavy he sounds. Accordionists are taught to play like that. For most of them, it’s a solo instrument - so they never get a clue. I’ve found the best way to address this kind of problem is to record your performance. Present it as a self improvement effort for you and listen to it together. It’s really an eye opener.

I recently got a TASCAM DR40x digital recorder with built in mics, and I record my trio’s weekly gigs. We’re hearing a lot of important stuff and have found several ways to improve our collective playing already. Most importantly, I hear where I’m overplaying - and this has been a critical discovery for me.

It’s also astounding how much faster you sound when you hear it played back than you think you do when you’re playing. After hearing this in my own playing, I began to realize how and why great players like Bickert and Wes sound so relaxed when they solo. You don’t have to push it - just let it flow. This probably applies double to accordions. It’s worth a try.

[mr. beaumont]

Gotta learn to "vamp comp" with space cloggers...listen to lots of grant green and charlie Christian.

Or just lay out. Its ok not to play.

[Marinero]

In my bag of memories as a saxophonist between bands, I once auditioned for a working Polka band who had jobs booked every weekend ,ad infinitum, and the pay was very good. The instrumentation was accordion, Fender bass, drums and saxophone. Everything was charted from Fake Books and it was a simple reading gig since I really didn't know any of the tunes. When I showed up for the audition, I asked to micro-tune to the accordion with my mouthpiece and the leader said "Just play." Within 3 bars, everyone was so out of tune it was unbearable and I stopped playing before the chorus. I asked the leader/accordionist, "Don't you guys ever tune up." He said, "It's fine." I packed up my horn and left.
Well, this is hardly the case with Yamandu and Richard Scrofano on bandeleon playing "Manhanera." I hope you enjoy this little gem.
Toca en vivo . . . Marinero

[sgcim]

Wen I was a kid, and I'm talking 15 years old, I first gigs were with accordovox players.
Back then it was either Farfisa or Accordovox.
The accordovox players liked it when I played their corny chord 'hits' that they picked up from their teachers.
These gigs were always with a drummer and a horn player. It's harder playing a duo with accordion.
Just accept the fact that he's gonna drown you out on just about anything, and hope he passes out or something.

[Greentone]

Yamandu Costa and Richard Scrofano sound great. That's a great duet.

[sgcim]

I mentioned my first gigs were lousy with accordionists, but then when I got old enough to drive, and started doing gigs with accordionists from NYC, I had some great experiences which are just coming back now to me.
When I comped with/for them, they were very strong on voice leading, and I used to play in octaves some of the voices they were stressing. I remember telling one older Germanic guy that he sounded like Max Reger!
He gave me an odd look and didn't say anything.
Another guy was heavily into chord substitutions, and I enjoyed playing with him. I did so many gigs back then, because there was only live music, that I've forgotten how great a lot of these accordionists were.

I used to play every year in the American Accordionists Competition with a friend of mine, and he knew a lot of the Art Van Damme things, and they were pretty hip. One time the famous jazz accordionist Matt Matthews was the judge, But I didn't know who he was back then. Later on, I found a bunch of his jazz records on labels like Dawn, and he used to use people like Joe Puma and Oscar Pettiford as sidemen.

He seemed like a pretty wild guy. I was still in my teens, so I thought he was drunk or something.
He said to me and my friend, "What are you guys gonna play, some Grand Funk Railroad?"
We played some jazz, and he stopped me afterwards, and paid me a very nice compliment.
I thought he was some old nut, so I didn't think anything of it, but when I found out who he was years later, I was amazed.

[Donkeyhead]

I don’t have any practical experience but I recommend not criticizing.

"Who among us...?"

[Marinero]

Here's Yamandu(floating somewhere in the Milky Way) with Dominguinhos. Enjoy.
Marinero

[jsaras]

Art Van Damme and Johnny Smith had a really nice Guitar/accordian duo.

Are you familiar with Quequi Sinesi?

It's not necessarily anything specific to the instrumentation but rather the personalities of players and their vision of what they're making together. If the accordian player just hears himself, you just need to sit back and let it be, sometimes.
There are ways a keyboardist thinks of their role/instrument and it might be worthwhile to actually discuss this with your partner, try out different ways to re-define your roles. Maybe he thinks you can't hold the sound without him playing so "heavy", or again, it might be that that's all he can do.
Think of the music. If you can't imagine adding anything musical... lay out. For the music's sake.

Art Van Damme just used his left hand for infrequent accents, and there was always a bass player in his groups.

Here is Tommy Gumina playing electric accordion with Joe Pass and Buddy De Franco on clarinet.

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[ronjazz]

I recall Tommy Gumina having an important role in the development of Polytone amps. He sure could play.

[jsaras]

I recall Tommy Gumina having an important role in the development of Polytone amps. He sure could play.

Tommy was the inventor and owner of Polytone. The earlier recordings he did with Buddy De Franco on acoustic accordion set the bar for that instrument in the jazz idiom. I wish he had played with more space, but that was part of the style back then with the virtuouso players.

[sgcim]

Art Van Damme just used his left hand for infrequent accents, and there was always a bass player in his groups.

Here is Tommy Gumina playing electric accordion with Joe Pass and Buddy De Franco on clarinet.

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Thanks for posting that Tommy Gumina album. What a monster!
They always talk about 'Super Groups'; if this wasn't a super group- Pass, DeFranco and Gumina, with Jimmie Smith on drums, I don't know what one is. Just because they're three old, white, Italian-Americans...I'll leave it at that...
When we were kids, we found Gumina's two albums he made with DeFranco in the 60s, and flipped over the polychords (that's why TG put those chord symbols on his Polytone amps) that TG and BDF played off of back then.
Here, it's more tastefully done, and Gumina gets a more mellow sound than back then. He's also playing bass at the same time, so maybe that's the reason why he can't play polychords as easily?
I looked up "The Girl From Ipanema", a record Gumina made with DeFranco back in the 60s, and he had a bass player, so maybe that freed him up to play one chord with his left hand, and a polychord with his left.
Gumina did make other albums with Pass- "Love Walked In" and this one in 1991 and 1995, and "Sound Project" in 1987. He played a Polycorus here, whatever that is.

[sgcim]

Turns out Gumina invented the Polycorus, a kind of blend of the accordion and organ.
It sounds so much better than the vibrato-drowned regular accordion.

[jsaras]

Turns out Gumina invented the Polycorus, a kind of blend of the accordion and organ.
It sounds so much better than the vibrato-drowned regular accordion.

Musette tuned accordions (sounds like a very wet chorus effect because of the detuning) don’t work for jazz or classical music, but when a single reed register or a less dramatic tuning spread, it sounds fantastic IMO. Here is one of Tommy’s former protogés playing an accordion with a left-hand button system that Tommy invented.

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[Dennis D]

Here's another monster accordionist.......less guitarist this time, but w/ a comment from none other than Jack Grassel.......

Back then, and through the '80's, he wasn't the only really good accordionist playing around Milwaukee.......

[Woody Sound]

[jsaras]

Here's another monster accordionist.......less guitarist this time, but w/ a comment from none other than Jack Grassel.......

Back then, and through the '80's, he wasn't the only really good accordionist playing around Milwaukee.......

Kenny was Art Van Damme’s protegè. Last I heard, he was having vision issues that precluded him from playing.


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[wintermoon]

[WILSON 1]

I don’t have any practical experience but I recommend not criticizing.

"Who among us...?"

I've been known to ask my accordion playing friend where he hides the monkey...but I'm re-thinking that.