Backing Tracks for live gigs Poll

**cosmic gumbo** · 03-05-2015, 01:12 PM

Me and Wynton were discussing the whole backing tracks thing at lunch over at Spike Lee's place, he thought he could save a lot of money if he could just get rid of that bunch of fools called the JALC Orchestra, but it was all Union and his hands were tied. We all laughed when he spilled coffee on his $2500 Italian shoes, but he just wiped them clean with a wad of $100 bills that fell out of his pocket. I thought Spike was gonna choke. Good memories....

**ingeneri** · 03-05-2015, 03:59 PM

Originally Posted by EightString

I'm not exactly "lacking people skills or organizational skills".

Otherwise I wouldn't play for and interact with audiences (people), or have arranged and produced (organized) hundreds (thousands? I have to check) of song arrangements to play.

On top of that, my day job for the past 8 years has been as CEO of a software technology company. That is like herding cats in its own way. Prior to that? I ran software development groups at Sony, Disney, Electronic Arts, etc.

I've got people and organizational skills covered.

I'll say it again: I love playing music with other people. But at this point in my life, after over 25 years of bands, I feel like I've earned my scars and the right to color with my own crayons for a while. I don't do this full time anymore, and I just don't have it in me to wrangle people as part of my "paid hobby" when I wrangle people throughout the day as part of my work. If that's "avoiding playing with other people", so be it.

So you're a successful CEO and aren't willing to spend enough on what is effectively a hobby to hire proper professionals capable of playing charts? That's the kind of noblesse oblige that launched a 1,000 Occupy movements.

**grahambop** · 03-05-2015, 04:14 PM

It's a good job Art Blakey could be bothered with the hassle of running a band. Otherwise we could have ended up with Art Blakey and the Backing Tracks, rather than Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers.

**EightString** · 03-05-2015, 04:36 PM

I'm going to bow out of this thread. Some of you cats are just too authentic and hip for me to be worthy of your presence.

Enjoy.

**henryrobinett** · 03-05-2015, 04:37 PM

Originally Posted by EightString

I'm going to bow out of this thread. Some of you cats are just too authentic and hip for me to be worthy of your presence.

Enjoy.

Authentic and hip - This is a jazz guitar forum. Those are two things almost everyone here aspires to, so why the surprise?

**AlsoRan** · 03-05-2015, 05:03 PM

(Warning: Long diatribe ahead)

As I reread this thread, it seemed to me that over and over the objections came down to:

1) backing tracks costing people playing opportunities and/or money

or

2) backing tracks cheapening the art form that is Jazz

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So in regards to 1), if this world did not require for us to earn a living and if Jazz was super-popular, Jazz musicians of all levels could play to their hearts content at any number of venues.

In regards to 2), it is clear that there is a standard of performance out there that many Jazz musicians consider to be acceptable. So in their mind, anyone who plays below this level should "stay in the bedroom" or stick with small informal groups and practice to reach that acceptable level, and not gig because it disrespects the art form.

A player using backing track is in clear violation of the item (1) above, and in the eyes of many, also of item (2).

In truth, using backing tracks is similar to using machines in a factory and putting people out of work. Some of the workers were dedicated and worked hard, others were selfish and worked harder getting out of work, and then there are the rest that fall in between. I don't know if this is more of a problem with society and the inherent unfairness of life, or a problem with individual's failure to adapt to the changes life throws at us. Probably a little of both.

Then there is problem 2), that is born of the passion that many Jazz musicians share, and their desire to not see the music "turned into a mockery." Yet it has been proven that many will pay for this "mockery." And, there a musicians who will "cross the picket line" and play in these venues.

I guess when it is all said and done, there are those who want to protect the ability to play Jazz in live venues both for the sake of the art form and for their livelihood, and there are those who just want to go have fun and earn a little money.

I would think there are venues who would don't have the money to pay for big bands and instead go with just about any serviceable musician they can stick in a chair. As an earlier thread stated, these venues are not the problem. Its the ones that cut corners and forego bands for the backing track guy.

In the end, life is not fair and you can try to fight to hold back change, change with, it be overrun by it. Those are the options and everyone has to decide for himself/herself what they are going to do and acknowledge the consequences of their decision. But "keep it real" and understand how we affect one another. But also ask that if the shoe were on the other foot, would the person on the other side of the argument accommodate your desires and needs.

From reading this thread, it appears each is out for his own interests, and may the strongest, smartest, and inventive win. And isn't that the way life works.

(I am off my soapbox. Its just that I am always moved and a bit saddened when I see impasses in life, like in things like politics or social views. We truly do not think the same.)

**pamosmusic** · 03-05-2015, 05:11 PM

I may be mistaken ... But I didn't see anything about it running people out of work. For me it has to do with interaction being a fundamental part of my musical experience. With respect to a jazz guitar forum ... Solo guitar is an essential skill and using backing tracks removes any need for this skill. You can compare it to a factory if you wish and make it sound like people are traditionalist sticks in the mud resisting progress but ask yourself if you think factory instruments can lay claim to the same price range and claim the same benchmarks of quality as a skilled luthiers work. It's an alternative. Not a substitute.

**pamosmusic** · 03-05-2015, 05:19 PM

You know ... I actually like your factory analogy. That very aptly sums up my thoughts on the topic. I genuinely have no objection to it. I personally am just not into making factory music. If others are then that's cool. I'd rather do hand crafted grass fed artisanal music and what have you.

**AlsoRan** · 03-05-2015, 05:37 PM

Originally Posted by pamosmusic

You know ... I actually like your factory analogy. That very aptly sums up my thoughts on the topic. I genuinely have no objection to it. I personally am just not into making factory music. If others are then that's cool. I'd rather do hand crafted grass fed artisanal music and what have you.

You are right. There was a third option and that's those who just don't like use backing tracks because of the lack of interplay - a very real aspect of what I call "good" Jazz. I should have added that in, but most who feel this way don't decry backing tracks as strongly as those in camps 1) and 2) that I mentioned above.

And you made a good point about the factory analogy. I probably would not take the analogy too far beyond the cost and the supply and demand aspects, and how they affect the choices of owners hiring live music acts. For example there is a difference between mass-produced items and small scale productions of skilled artisans, as you mentioned. The metaphor starts to breakdown.

And you know, sometimes change is not good to to fight for things to remain the same can often be the better option.

**EOE** · 03-05-2015, 06:16 PM

I will just solve the problem with you Beaumont it is called ignore list. anyone who resorts to childish name calling goes there. Now to new players, do not listen to cats who are stuck in their box...at 18 I was playing in a rock band..at a blues jam I was offered a job in a country band..my rock band said many of the same things some of these cats say...." its all about the music mann " they all have day jobs. I have made my living playing music...look at the industry look at your market and make solid business choices. is it better to work a day job and play what you love at night...or play music for money working on your chops and play what you love early in the morning? it is a fast changing industry. you do not have time to let people slow you down.

**ingeneri** · 03-05-2015, 08:01 PM

Originally Posted by EOE

I will just solve the problem with you Beaumont it is called ignore list. anyone who resorts to childish name calling goes there. Now to new players, do not listen to cats who are stuck in their box...at 18 I was playing in a rock band..at a blues jam I was offered a job in a country band..my rock band said many of the same things some of these cats say...." its all about the music mann " they all have day jobs. I have made my living playing music...look at the industry look at your market and make solid business choices. is it better to work a day job and play what you love at night...or play music for money working on your chops and play what you love early in the mourning? it is a fast changing industry. you do not have time to let people slow you down.

This may be the first time I've seen Jeff Beaumont put on an ignore list in 10 years.

Sorry, but there isn't't a single jazz credit in your Post, so I don't find the fact you made a living playing music particularly dispositive. I care a lot more what people like Jack Zucker or Henry think.

It's a different scene with very different criteria. If you're trying to perform Jazz professionally, you've already indicated that doing what it takes for financial renumeration is not a priority. Probably more opportunities as a Ativan throat singer. For people (admittedly not you) to post that they need to use backing tracks because the musicians they hire are degenerates who universally have drug problems, don't know any tunes, and can't read charts just reveals their own cluelessness. Talk to any pianist who came up in the Wynton era in the '80s about how many tunes they needed to know, or learning a famous singer's book almost instantly. And I'm not talking about famous pianists, just local heroes.

i know guys who played with Charlie Parker who worked day jobs for decades, they will always have more authority on Jazz than you, or me, or just about all but maybe a hundred people in the world.

**EOE** · 03-05-2015, 08:44 PM

cool you do not know me and it does not bother me at all if you do not care about what I have to say ... if someone does learn something from what I have to say great...but on the other hand seeing how you do not know me do not assume what I can not do or who I am... and if I do not want to put my self out there for psycostalkers like I kind of think there is one in this forum. that is my business. what benefit is it to me to put my portfolio here? do not need anymore mentors than I have.. if i give up on putting my band together I will have no problem getting work. I am comfortable in my skill so do not need to impress anyone or need encouragement. me I understand the problems running a band and know how to minimize those.. market is tough even top acts have to use backing tracks.. and when it comes to a full band you are in direct competition with top acts . they are all over the casino circuit. but hey do not believe me.

destinytot · 03-05-2015, 09:19 PM

play music for money working on your chops and play what you love early in the mourning

The rather telling misspelling reminded me of "Never for money. Always for love." (From This Must Be The Place by Talking Heads.)

**EOE** · 03-05-2015, 09:54 PM

ok spelling police I went back and fixed it.

**mr. beaumont** · 03-05-2015, 10:10 PM

Woo hoo! I'm hitting the ignore list. If only I knew whose list it was.

Sorry, EOE, but I'll happily be ignored by an anonymous know it all prick who preaches plenty and shares nothing.

And you aren't making 1k a night playing with tracks anywhere, bro. But good luck on your band--I'm sure all the top players in your area are lining up when they learn you think they can be replaced by a machine.

**henryrobinett** · 03-05-2015, 10:39 PM

I've never known anyone who felt that they had to put Jeff Beaumont on ignore.

**Stevebol** · 03-05-2015, 10:51 PM

I just tried to click on Eightstring's homepage and got attacked by a bot spot whatever it is. Lol. These techies are a trip. Did he ban himself? Too bad.

**Stevebol** · 03-05-2015, 10:54 PM

Originally Posted by henryrobinett

I've never known anyone who felt that they had to put Jeff Beaumont on ignore.

It's getting a little weird around here. 8string banned himself and mods get put on someone's ignore list?

**mr. beaumont** · 03-05-2015, 10:58 PM

Man, people STILL think I'm a moderator!

**henryrobinett** · 03-05-2015, 11:10 PM

He banned himself??

**Stevebol** · 03-05-2015, 11:14 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Man, people STILL think I'm a moderator!

You're not? OK

**Stevebol** · 03-05-2015, 11:21 PM

Originally Posted by henryrobinett

He banned himself??

I'm kidding but you can't get to his website now. I was at his site a couple days ago now there's a bot attack. He's a CEO of whatever so I'm sure he knows what he's doing.
I don't.

**NSJ** · 03-05-2015, 11:42 PM

Who's "Jeff Beaumont"?

Let's see --there's two Jeffs who post regularly here, Jeff Matz and there's Jeff Smith.

**EOE** · 03-05-2015, 11:46 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

I'd love to know what those successful bands were, but alas, all we get is anonymous internet blowharding from a nameless, faceless, mysterious--yet reportedly wildly successful--guitar player.

I have a policy. he called me a blowhard .. I ignore or mute all peeps who resort to childish behavior fyi . just saying this because some are wondering why.

**henryrobinett** · 03-06-2015, 12:12 AM

Originally Posted by EOE

I have a policy. he called me a blowhard .. I ignore or mute all peeps who resort to childish behavior fyi . just saying this because some are wondering why.

I understand.

Also silly me. Jeff Matz Beaumont.