naming chords?

[pan60]

be ecuse my ignorance on this i hope its not to basic.
sometimes i get hung up n small issue like this.
high all i am new to learning to read music and trying to understand things as i am going along.
one thing i wanted to ask is ( as example ) is Amin the same as Am?
if so why would it be labeled a Amin on one bar and Am on the next?

also when a chord is labled ( as example ) Amaj that is a chord that i would think would be made up of a 1, 3, 5 would that be correct? basic i know i want to make sure i have this all correct. spent to many years learning wrong.
so if i add a extention say a seven the it would be Amaj7
if i add a six would it be Amaj6 or just A6? this is causing me a small degree of confusion not is learn playing or reading just in proper naming. i see as example A6 written in one of my studies and the i see Amaj7 or Amaj9 so why would the A6 not be labled Amaj6?
thank pan

[mr. beaumont]

be ecuse my ignorance on this i hope its not to basic.
sometimes i get hung up n small issue like this.
high all i am new to learning to read music and trying to understand things as i am going along.
one thing i wanted to ask is ( as example ) is Amin the same as Am?
if so why would it be labeled a Amin on one bar and Am on the next?

also when a chord is labled ( as example ) Amaj that is a chord that i would think would be made up of a 1, 3, 5 would that be correct? basic i know i want to make sure i have this all correct. spent to many years learning wrong.
so if i add a extention say a seven the it would be Amaj7
if i add a six would it be Amaj6 or just A6? this is causing me a small degree of confusion not is learn playing or reading just in proper naming. i see as example A6 written in one of my studies and the i see Amaj7 or Amaj9 so why would the A6 not be labled Amaj6?
thank pan

You have it right. People are just inconsistent when they write stuff.

[jameslovestal]

be ecuse my ignorance on this i hope its not to basic.
sometimes i get hung up n small issue like this.
high all i am new to learning to read music and trying to understand things as i am going along.
one thing i wanted to ask is ( as example ) is Amin the same as Am?
if so why would it be labeled a Amin on one bar and Am on the next?

also when a chord is labled ( as example ) Amaj that is a chord that i would think would be made up of a 1, 3, 5 would that be correct? basic i know i want to make sure i have this all correct. spent to many years learning wrong.
so if i add a extention say a seven the it would be Amaj7
if i add a six would it be Amaj6 or just A6? this is causing me a small degree of confusion not is learn playing or reading just in proper naming. i see as example A6 written in one of my studies and the i see Amaj7 or Amaj9 so why would the A6 not be labled Amaj6?
thank pan

As Jeff said, people are often just inconsistent. Also many (I'm one), like to use the least number of characters possible.

Note that for Major 7 chords, the reason "maj" or "M" is used is to distinguish them from Dominate 7th chords.

E.g. A7 is a dominate 7th chord: 1 3 b7. Thus, to distinguish major chords from dominate chords, something had to be note to indicate if the 7th is natural or flat.

With minor chord it is assumed the 3rd, and the 7th are flatted: 1 b3, b7. Thus, one doesn't need to notate that; the "min" or "m" implies this.

[Mick-7]

"I see as example A6 written in one of my studies and the I see Amaj7 or Amaj9 so why would the A6 not be labeled Amaj6?"

A6 is vague, should be named either AM6 or Am6, but these are usually tonic (I) chords so the key and/or chord progression should tell you whether that A6 is major or minor.

[Brooke]

1 3 5 6 is major

[starjasmine]

I haven't read this thread but saw the post below and thought I'd clarify quickly; apologies if someone else has already addressed this.

"I see as example A6 written in one of my studies and the I see Amaj7 or Amaj9 so why would the A6 not be labeled Amaj6?"

A6 is vague, should be named either AM6 or Am6, but these are usually tonic (I) chords so the key and/or chord progression should tell you whether that A6 is major or minor.

"maj" or "mi" tells you the quality of the triad. In jazz any chord can be built on any scale degree, so "these are usually tonic" is not correct.

Chord symbols are shorthand that can be used independently of whether harmony is diatonic, chromatic, functional, non-functional, or modal, so "the key and/or chord progression" is not necessarily going to tell you anything about the quality of a chord.

This shorthand relies on convention to keep it, well, short!
- The first convention is that a triad is major unless stated otherwise. So C is C major unless you explicitly say that it is minor, augmented or diminished.
- Another convention is that the sixth in any *6 chord symbol is a major sixth. That is C6 = CEGA and C-6 = CEbGA. Consider that if we add a minor sixth to our C major triad (CEGAb) we would actually have an Ab+ma7 in first inversion. Adding a major 6 to a major triad is completely diatonic, and much more common, so it gets assigned the more common (and simpler) shorthand. Similarly, if we add a minor sixth to a C minor triad (CEbGAb) we have Abma7 in first inversion. So the "sixths in chord symbols are always major 6ths" convention eliminates this ambiguity.

This came up about a month ago in another thread... maybe someone else can find it. I've already said too much :-)

PS: there's a chord chart in the beginning of The New Real Book (and all of the Jamey Aebersold play-along books ... heck, it's probably on the Web somewhere) that tells you the notes in every chord symbol.

PPS: Found it! I hope this helps.

PPPS (omg!) - I'm aware that Berklee teaches a slightly different system, where every chord always includes M for major and m for minor. I haven't studied Berklee chordal notation and I'm not here to argue the merits or drawbacks of either system.

[orri]

You might find this helpful

[Mick-7]

"maj" or "mi" tells you the quality of the triad. In jazz any chord can be built on any scale degree, so "these are usually tonic" is not correct.

What I said was correct. The OP asked about a specific chord, A6, and I replied that AM6 or Am6 usually functions as a tonic chord in the key, e.g., Amaj.6 in the key of A major (and Amaj.7), and Am6 (and Am#7) in the key of A minor - whereas, say, Am7, has a subdominant function - IIm7, IIIm7, etc.

[emanresu]

Naming chords or reading them - in jazz, it is often not a "system". More like tradition.

[pamosmusic]

What I said was correct. The OP asked about a specific chord, A6, and I replied that AM6 or Am6 usually functions as a tonic chord in the key, e.g., Amaj.6 in the key of A major (and Amaj.7), and Am6 (and Am#7) in the key of A minor - whereas, say, Am7, has a subdominant function - IIm7, IIIm7, etc.

Yeah I guess maybe that’s true (though IV chords are 6 chords often enough), but you implied that A6 might be major or minor which is not true. It’s always major.

[orri]

"I see as example A6 written in one of my studies and the I see Amaj7 or Amaj9 so why would the A6 not be labeled Amaj6?"

A6 is vague, should be named either AM6 or Am6, but these are usually tonic (I) chords so the key and/or chord progression should tell you whether that A6 is major or minor.

A6 is always a major chord and never ever a minor chord unless it's a mistake.
(It's also common as a IV chord (subdoninant) in major keys)


How ever AM6 can in some sheets mean A major 6 and A minor 6 in other sheets.
Some sheets use M for major and m for minor. (I personally intenisvely dislike that convention.)

other sheets use M (often subscript or superscript) for minor and all chords without any kind of M are major chords. (I think it some cases it might be a m in a typeface or handwriting where M and m look similar if you don't see them next to each other).

[pamosmusic]

And for what it’s worth, the ii chord (iv chord in minor) also has a natural sixth. Usually it’s m7 in the major key, but m6 often enough in the minor key.

Summertime, Alone Together, etc.

[pamosmusic]

A6 is always a major chord and never ever a minor chord unless it's a mistake.
(It's also popular IV chord (subdoninant) in major keys)


How ever AM6 can in some sheets mean A major 6 and A minor 6 in other sheets.
Some sheets use M for major and m for minor. (I personally intenisvely dislike that convention.)

other sheets use super script M for minor and all chords without any kind of M are major chords.

God I hate the “single M or m for major and minor.” In the “jazz font” the lower case is usually just a smaller upper case. So confusing.

[pawlowski6132]

Yup, and there's no getting around this.

And unless you're a studio musician or playing a score, don't worry about it. If you're here at the JAZZ forum, you want to feel free to play any flavor of major chord (for example) you want.

A, A6, A6/9, etc.

[mr. beaumont]

God I hate the “single M or m for major and minor.” In the “jazz font” the lower case is usually just a smaller upper case. So confusing.

Delta and minus for me, PLEASE.

[pamosmusic]

Delta and minus for me, PLEASE.

Team delta all the way. Why draw all those lines when three will do?

[Mick-7]

Yeah I guess maybe that’s true (though IV chords are 6 chords often enough), but you implied that A6 might be major or minor which is not true. It’s always major.

The OP asked how to interpret A6, whether it could have different meanings, I just said it's rather vague, should be qualified as being major or minor, but if not, the key and/or chord progression should reveal what it is... and the melody, there's normally (hopefully) a reason why they've written Amaj.6 versus Amaj.7. Often both occur together to support the melody or suggest a counterpoint line.

And for what it’s worth, the ii chord (iv chord in minor) also has a natural sixth.

True, but Am or Am6 usually implies to play the major 7th (G#), tonic function, whereas the IVm chord has a minor 7th (C and not C#).

Team delta all the way. Why draw all those lines when three will do?

Seems the minus sign got tainted when people started using it for other things, like say a b9th, and then there's the potential confusion when it's alter-ego, the plus sign, is used for augmented and for added extensions: A7+ A+9 or whatever, although one could argue that some of these are misnamed.

[pamosmusic]

The OP asked how to interpret A6, whether it could have different meanings, I just said it's rather vague, should be qualified as being major or minor, but if not, the key and/or chord progression should reveal what it is... and the melody, there's normally (hopefully) a reason why they've written Amaj.6 versus Amaj.7. Often both occur together to support the melody or suggest a counterpoint line.

Have you ever seen a piece of music where A6 denotes a minor chord?

It means major. Full stop. Whether it’s a perfect chord symbol is a different discussion, but you’d be hard pressed to find an instance in the long, storied history if dumb, opaque chord symbols where it means anything but a major triad with a sixth.

[Mick-7]

Have you ever seen a piece of music where A6 denotes a minor chord?

Believe it or not I have, to mean the I chord in a minor key - shorthand doesn't always work.

[mr. beaumont]

Believe it or not I have, to mean the I chord in a minor key - shorthand doesn't always work.

The person who wrote that chart should be drawn and quartered.

[Mick-7]

The person who wrote that chart should be drawn and quartered.

What really gets me is when someone gives the same chord two or three different names on a chart - make up your mind, dammit!

[rpjazzguitar]

If major is a triangle, I'm happy with lower case m for minor.

I also appreciate it when the engraver takes the trouble to increase the font size of the chord symbols, especially if there are multiple extensions.

[pcjazz]

Delta and minus for me, PLEASE.

But I like delta for a triad, And the minus sign sometimes indicates a flatted note other than the third. Jazz notation is consistently inconsistent. Saw a chart the other day with “Ab9” — is that Ab7 with an added ninth or A7b9? Had to check the piano score to figure it out …

[pamosmusic]

But I like delta for a triad, And the minus sign sometimes indicates a flatted note other than the third. Jazz notation is consistently inconsistent. Saw a chart the other day with “Ab9” — is that Ab7 with an added ninth or A7b9? Had to check the piano score to figure it out …

Bless you for your due diligence. I’m playing Ab7(9) for that one and they’ll have to correct me

[Christian Miller]

When I see just a delta on its own I don’t know if the composer or arranger means major or major seventh.

According to this

Why Lead Sheets? | Berklee

it’s the latter ONLY.

For my part I follow the convention in the Sher NRB. I find those charts to be really clear, and they have a page where they set out what all the chords are.

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