The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    Hi, back in January i got some local musicians together to play as a quintet. We had a drummer, bass, vocals, tennor sax and me on guitar.

    It was all
    going well until last week when the drummer announced he was leaving.

    we are about 20 songs into building our set list and have a few gigs lined up in the summer.

    I don’t really have enough experience to be an MD and reorganise things but why should we do? try and find a new drummer, (not easy for jazz) or go without?

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  3. #2

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    I would say it all depends on how well you and the bass player can keep tempo. If you two can avoid speeding up (in my experience, that's the main thing that happens without a solid tempo-keeper), then I'd keep forging ahead, and plan on doing those gigs. I'd still look for a drummer, but after you're up and running you may find a volunteer.

  4. #3

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    A lot of great jazz has been played without a drummer. Ahmad Jamal, Oscar Peterson, Lennie Tristano, Red Norvo, Tal Farlow, Jim Hall and many others did it very very well.

    A sensitive, musical drummer is a wonderful and equal member of a band. But anything less is just an expensive metronome. I’d proceed without one unless / until you find the right one.

  5. #4

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    I play in a (non jazz) duo with guitar, bass and two vocals. We started as a trio but the drummer wasn’t dependable and found no need to rehearse…he was capable.
    Guitar and bass rehearse all the time, it’s fun right!
    We find that we play much better without the drummer. We are of one mind if you will. We recover from most of our mistakes without anyone knowing there was one.
    As far as timing goes, yes we speed up and slow down….with excitement and emotion.
    Now I love a good drummer but the lack of a drummer is not a show stopper in the vast majority of bands.
    If course, just my opinion.

  6. #5

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    I would continue without drums, don't let just anyone fill the seat. A good drummer needs finesse, dynamics and restraint. Traits that don't really coincide with bashing things. It's hard to find a good one.

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geospectrum View Post
    Hi, back in January i got some local musicians together to play as a quintet. We had a drummer, bass, vocals, tennor sax and me on guitar.

    It was all
    going well until last week when the drummer announced he was leaving.

    we are about 20 songs into building our set list and have a few gigs lined up in the summer.

    I don’t really have enough experience to be an MD and reorganise things but why should we do? try and find a new drummer, (not easy for jazz) or go without?
    Gig etiquette would dictate that if the drummer was on the gigs, he should find a sub. Maybe ask who he knows?

    Ask around though in general …. I had a gig recently and called 14 bass players before I got one. And I’m not in a big market at all anymore. You’d be surprised sometimes who’s floating around out there, practicing after their gig at the accounting firm because music wasn’t covering the conservatory loan payments.

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by AllanAllen View Post
    I would continue without drums, don't let just anyone fill the seat. A good drummer needs finesse, dynamics and restraint. Traits that don't really coincide with bashing things. It's hard to find a good one.
    Also this … that same gig I decided to do trio with bass, guitar, and sax. Not for any reason. Just because it’s a fun texture.

  9. #8

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    Maybe look for piano? Should be easier to find.

    Guitar/bass/piano/vocals...that's a nice combo.

    Obviously you could do it with just guitar and bass too...if I'm going to be the only chordal instrument I do like drums...frees me up a bit rhythmically. But sometimes you just gotta do it.

    Guitar/bass/vocals, check out Sarah Vaughan's "After Hours." That should inspire you.

  10. #9

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    If you have a good double bass player you don't need drums.
    I've done many a successful gig on DB without a drummer.
    I play guitar in an old time jazz band with no drums - Tuba for bass. But last rehearsal we had a washboard player!

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geospectrum View Post
    Hi, back in January i got some local musicians together to play as a quintet. We had a drummer, bass, vocals, tennor sax and me on guitar.

    It was all
    going well until last week when the drummer announced he was leaving.

    we are about 20 songs into building our set list and have a few gigs lined up in the summer.

    I don’t really have enough experience to be an MD and reorganise things but why should we do? try and find a new drummer, (not easy for jazz) or go without?
    oh it is such a relief.. when there is no drummer

  12. #11

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    This is an example from a group I was in decades ago, that later became a Broadway show (Pump Boys and Dinettes). This was our first performance, at The Cat's Cradle in Chapel Hill. I played bass, sang some, and arranged the vocals (nothing written out – arranged in rehearsal).

    We had no drummer – slapping the bass provided some percussion:

    http://www.baritoneuke.net/PumpBoys/JesusOnTheMainline.mp3

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit View Post
    A lot of great jazz has been played without a drummer. Ahmad Jamal, Oscar Peterson, Lennie Tristano, Red Norvo, Tal Farlow, Jim Hall and many others did it very very well.

    A sensitive, musical drummer is a wonderful and equal member of a band. But anything less is just an expensive metronome. I’d proceed without one unless / until you find the right one.
    I'm reminded of Chet Baker's comment: “It takes a pretty good drummer to be better than no drummer at all.”

  14. #13

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    I like playing with a drummer, I like playing without a drummer as long as the bassist is solid in time. Somebody else put it as playing with different textures and I think that's a great way to think about it. Not having a drummer allows a degree of dynamic finesse that is really impossible to have when there's someone behind the drum kit. I have also played with a percussionist rather than a drummer, which is also a very interesting experience.

    Topic drift:
    While I enjoy playing with an attentive and responsive drummer, in jazz the bass player is IMHO the primary timekeeper. It seems to be a very difficult role, because I find it very hard to find a bass player who knows how to walk 4/4 consistently and well. Few seem to be able to swing and carry a swinging groove by themselves. Perhaps for the modern bassist that role is now considered passé; I find a lot of bass players locally where I can hear the windings on the strings but not the fundamental note- all overtones and no actual bass. They have a tendency to clash with guitar, in particular, and also with piano to some extent as a result. With some local bass players, I just have to forget about using the bottom two strings because it is going to clash; with others, I can play any note and it will fit together fine.

    A lot of drummers think that they are the primary timekeeper but, especially with small group jazz, to my ears they are accenting and playing around the groove and locking with the time being set by the bassist. Not always, though; two weeks apart I heard Bill Stewart play with Larry Gouldings and Peter Bernstein and then with John Scofield and Vicente Archer (who is a great bassist). With the organ trio, he tended to play around the beat with a lot of subdivided activity on the snare and cymbals, feathering the kick and lighter hands. With Scofield, on the other hand, he tended to function a bit more like a rock drummer propelling the groove- heavier kick, more tomtom and snare. It was interesting to hear him address the music in those different ways so close together. BTW, my current favorite drummer.

    I find most drummers don't want to rehearse regularly and don't show up.

  15. #14

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    Go to a jam session, they're falling off the trees there
    Agree it's nice to have a good one if you can't have your regular. My longtime drummer who's pretty amazing recently missed a gig and although the replacement I called was ok I had to be careful which tunes I called due to arrangements etc, but this would be true of any bandmember.
    I mostly work in organ trios and a great saxophonist I knew, the late Bootsie Barnes, once told me "if you have an organist w a good bass line and a good drummer, the rest is gravy"
    Sound advice.....

  16. #15

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    Just call a pizza delivery service. Chances are the guy delivering your pizza will be a drummer.

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by sgcim View Post
    Just call a pizza delivery service. Chances are the guy delivering your pizza will be a drummer.
    You must have better pizza joints, all the ones I call send bone players.

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by pamosmusic View Post
    Gig etiquette would dictate that if the drummer was on the gigs, he should find a sub. Maybe ask who he knows?

    Ask around though in general …. I had a gig recently and called 14 bass players before I got one. And I’m not in a big market at all anymore. You’d be surprised sometimes who’s floating around out there, practicing after their gig at the accounting firm because music wasn’t covering the conservatory loan payments.
    Lol my bass player just canceled

  19. #18

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    In putting together a group, the first thing I think about is that the drummer and bassist have to love each other.

    Hopefully, the drummer hasn't departed because of anything the bassist did. If the bassist is solid, as others have pointed out, you'll be fine. It's quite possible you might prefer it without drums. Also, if the bassist is solid, you'll be able to attract another drummer.

  20. #19

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    Drummer has left, what now?-candb-jpg

  21. #20

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    ^ Good God no. I hate tippy taps.

    2nd no drummer and proceeding with the gigs as is. If you eventually find a good replacement then cool.


  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar View Post
    In putting together a group, the first thing I think about is that the drummer and bassist have to love each other.

    Hopefully, the drummer hasn't departed because of anything the bassist did. If the bassist is solid, as others have pointed out, you'll be fine. It's quite possible you might prefer it without drums. Also, if the bassist is solid, you'll be able to attract another drummer.
    Love was not enough… after what bassist did…
    but… he knew he was no more that attractive

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar View Post
    In putting together a group, the first thing I think about is that the drummer and bassist have to love each other.

    Hopefully, the drummer hasn't departed because of anything the bassist did. If the bassist is solid, as others have pointed out, you'll be fine. It's quite possible you might prefer it without drums. Also, if the bassist is solid, you'll be able to attract another drummer.
    The first thing I think about is how much I have to offer them lol. Back in NYC I had a list of drummers and bass players and I knew their price points. Usually if the gig is well paid no trouble finding a quality trust-able musicians who wouldn't cancel on you especially last min. If not well paid well... narrower options and more risk of cancellations.

    Also agree, many of those gigs that were on a tighter budget drums was the first to cut off, and I played many with just a bass. It's cool, I loved it, the guitar is the drums in some jazz styles. Nobody ever cancel a jazz gig if drummer wasn't available, don't recall that lol.

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith View Post
    [...]
    Fun to see NKC singing with someone else playing piano – especially Peterson. He was a big fan of NKC, and recorded With Respect to Nat, singing as well as playing. It made me wish he'd sung more.

  25. #24

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    The jazz group I sit in with has a very good drummer, but he has other demands on his time (he's on the local university music faculty), so it's not unusual for the weekly session to have to do without him. And they manage pretty well, though he's sorely missed on some tunes. When the drummer's out, timekeeping seems to go to the bass and piano--the latter has especially good time. And while I'm careful not to push my role, my swing-rhythm playing helps on those tunes where it's appropriate. (Not the boppish material, obviously.)

    What my ears tell me about drumless combos is that the guitar takes on more of the traditional rhythm-section function--and that such a lineup might tailor its repertory and arrangements to make up for the absence of the drumkit. And yes, the bass becomes crucial in that situation. I can't count the number of jam sessions that perked up considerably when a bass player showed up--sometimes in the middle of a tune. Bang! Everybody sounded better.

    Maybe it's just me, but what I hear in my head when I'm playing rhythm is drums.