Aint Misbehavin chord meldy theory help

[pan60]

I'd go for something better if I were you.



This is the Frank Vignola chord melody course. It's not available anywhere else. Forget the free stuff, take a breath and buy it.

Jazz Chord Melody Playbook - Frank Vignola - Guitar Lessons - TrueFire

From everything you've said I've no doubt that you're dedicated and serious. I wish you every success and the best of luck. Go for it!

here is where i got it Jam 170 - M Songs - March 29 - Frank Vignola's Jazz Studio - Channels - TrueFire

[ragman1]

i figure i would be better off if i had a good intrustor

Absolutely right, you probably would be, but unfortunately good ones are rare. So maybe you're actually better off with Vignola, albeit on video.

i dont know how the computer stuff works

Then find out. Don't be pathetic.

i thought if i learned to sight read i would be learning theroy and voice leading by default?

Not necessarily. Theory, by and large, has to be explained if not studied. To sight-read all you need to do, technically at least, is to copy the notes and maybe the TAB.

I obviously haven't properly seen inside the Vignola video course. I chose him because you repeatedly stressed a liking for his style. So you have to find out if what he does is for you. He's starting pretty well at the beginning so he's not going to go into much theory. By the time he gets to level 3 he's probably explained quite a lot along the way.

It's up to you. I wouldn't get hung up on theory too much if I were you. You don't want to become one of these people that know all the clever stuff but can't really play it. In any case, you're bound to pick up quite a lot as you go along. Swings and roundabouts :-)

[pan60]

Then find out. Don't be pathetic.

:-)

what i ment was i dont know how effect it would for his class sometime when you are speaking with someone its is much easier to get there then when messaging.
as far as Mr. Frank its not so much that i have a liking ( i do not a favrote not in love with but i like ) just his class seemed obtainable.

thanks everyone!!!!

[ragman1]

easier to get there then when messaging.

It's a video course. I'm not sure you can message him.

[pauln]

...but i just didnt understad the chord naming...
maybe i am wrong but i thought if i learned to sight read i would be learning theroy and voice leading by default?

I suggested in post #27 that the use of different chord names for "the same thing" was probably for the benefit of bass players (vanilla root perspective) or conceptually for the guitarist, especially if playing it alone. The chord names act to sneak in some explicit root movement where the notated score may only be implicit. I didn't notice anyone commenting on that yet, either to confirm or deny.
If you just had a lead sheet of chords figuring out a chord melody by ear, you might come up with different things to play for the "same thing" named two different ways, right?

Theory is the "cart behind the horse" of learning... focus on moving forward leaning to play new things and the fog of theory will naturally condense into understanding and back-fill behind you.

[pan60]

i think i might see what i was missing the Eb in bar 3 one could play but the scoreit is a Eb6 minus the root?
and for the Eb7 the score is a Eb6 with the 3 instead the 7?

[Mick-7]

i think i might see what i was missing the Eb in bar 3 one could play but the score it is a Eb6 minus the root? and for the Eb7 the score is a Eb6 with the 3 instead the 7?

In the score you posted, the "Eb"in the 3rd bar is actually a Bbm triad (3rd in the bass), which is the IIm chord to the Eb7 that follows it. The other chords labelled Eb are Eb Major triads.

[pan60]

In the score you posted, the "Eb"in the 3rd bar is actually a Bbm triad (3rd in the bass), which is the IIm chord to the Eb7 that follows it. The other chords labelled Eb are Eb Major triads.

but it you add the Eb as the root it woould be Eb6 correct?
i am trying to see this as in a video Franake did he played the chords as a rythem and i wrote them out and he plays a EBmaj7 and a Eb7
when i first seen that i want to see it as a F#maj7, then i see it as a Bb- and i can see it as the ii- of the Eb7 just i'm trying to see how it is seen as the the Eb.

so does does the ii- act as a substution Eb?
for some reason i would had it in my head a ii- would be used in passing but i aso see in this setting analizing is so i understand it is the ask.

i am starting to think the chords are for the basics of the song but where not intended to be part of what he had on the staff?

[pauln]

i am starting to think the chords are for the basics of the song but where not ontended to have be part of what he had on the staff?

Even if you were wrong, that would be the right way to think about it!

[mr. beaumont]

i am starting to think the chords are for the basics of the song but where not intended to be part of what he had on the staff?

Yes. Sorry, that's what I was trying to explain in my previous posts, but clearly I was well...unclear

[pan60]

Yes. Sorry, that's what I was trying to explain in my previous posts, but clearly I was well...unclear

thank you so much sometimes its takes a bit for the light to flicker : )

i understand the movement from a ii to the 1
so am i incorrect in wanting to see that third bar Eb as a Eb6?

[Mick-7]

but it you add the Eb as the root it would be Eb6 correct? ... so does does the ii- act as a substitution Eb?

No, there is no 3rd (G). The entire bar is Eb7 but one can precede any V7 chord with it's relative IIm7 (I wouldn't call it a sub). If you're referring to the C in the melody, it's the 13th of Eb7. That's the only chord in the chart that bears no resemblance to the name it's given.

[pan60]

No, there is no 3rd (G). The entire bar is Eb7 but one can precede any V7 chord with it's relative IIm7 (I wouldn't call it a sub). If you're referring to the C in the melody, it's the 13th of Eb7. That's the only chord in the chart that bears no resemblance to the name it's given.

okay no 3 G# so no Eb6
i was only looking at that triad Db F Bb note and thinking if i added a Eb to that it would Eb6 somtimes i play a 6 chord that way ( i guess incoreclty ) so it stumps me?

so, if i understand you correctly because its coming up on the Ab7 in the fourth bar its is a Bb- tirad.
Bbm triad (3rd in the bass) i can see that.
so the next chord in bar 3 the Db F G Eb notes what would you call it i see a Eb79 am i thinking all wrong there as well?
thanks so much guys

[Mick-7]

So, pan 60, I think you said your goal is to improve your sight reading of chords? The key to that is to look for the key tones that define a chord, which are it's 3rd and 7th. Then you would look for the root and/or 5th of the chord (of course you must understand how chords are constructed). After that, it just takes practice, eventually you'll be able to recognize chords on sight by the way the notes are stacked - the intervals between the notes.

"I was only looking at that triad Db F Bb note and thinking if I added a Eb to that it would Eb6, sometimes i play a 6 chord that way."

Well, the entire bar is Eb7 so many variations of it will work there, including Bbm7 > Eb7. You could play Eb6 but it won't sound dominant (V7 of Ab6 in the next bar) unless you add the b7th in that bar.

"so the next chord in bar 3 the Db F G Eb notes what would you call it i see a Eb79"

Yes, the notated chord is an Eb9.

[pan60]

So, pan 60, I think you said your goal is to improve your sight reading of chords? The key to that is to look for the key tones that define a chord, which are it's 3rd and 7th. Then you would look for the root and/or 5th of the chord (of course you must understand how chords are constructed). After that, it just takes practice, eventually you'll be able to recognize chords on sight by the way the notes are stacked - the intervals between the notes.

"I was only looking at that triad Db F Bb note and thinking if I added a Eb to that it would Eb6, sometimes i play a 6 chord that way."

Well, the entire bar is Eb7 so many variations of it will work there, including Bbm7 > Eb7. You could play Eb6 but it won't sound dominant (V7 of Ab6 in the next bar) unless you add the b7th in that bar.

"so the next chord in bar 3 the Db F G Eb notes what would you call it i see a Eb79"

Yes, the notated chord is an Eb9.

that helps a LOT
i have a good handle ( i think ) on how to make chords and i have a good library in my head of chords playing the song is not proven to be a issue just the understanding.
not seeing the chords as the where written caused the most confustion and as @ Mr mr. beaumont pointed out whats up there is the basic the guide so to speak so that also helps.
as recomened by you guys here i think i will just not concern mayself with trying to understand all of it to much and go back to what i originaly set to ocomplish with is to be able to read.
my theory is week but not non-existent
look for the 3rd and 7th will help becuse it never dawned on me to do that i was looking at the form i am play and trying to to justy it like the Eb6 i was not thinking the 3 isnt there my brain just got hung up on it needing to be E and i never thought about the ii- of the of the next bar. so maybe i need to spend more time stuying some ii V I movements.

thanks EVRYONE!!