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Originally Posted by Tal_175
If I don't know the tune that well, or I just can't feel the changes, then I try to think about melody, primarily, while remaining aware of the chord tones of each chord -- which is part of "clam-avoidance".
So, to the extent I can put it into words, it's something like this, for example. I imagine going to a stinging high note as a way of building a solo. Sometimes I'll know the exact note I want, but sometimes I don't. If the chord is, say, Am7, I'll be aware that my stinging high note can't be too dissonant against that chord. So, I might play A C E G or B rather than the other 7 notes. I generally know the chord tones in the chords I play - I mean, without thought.
The downside is that I can't really play anything that I can't already hear. I have made a choice to practice my melody-no-clam stuff more than trying to learn new sounds by theory.
Well, that explanation may be pretty inaccurate, but I don't know how to explain it any better.
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03-19-2024 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
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Originally Posted by Tal_175
When I work on trying to make my harmony less vanilla, I tend to think about the substitute chords I use in comping and play on them. Tritone, sideslipping, interchanging I iii V^7 vi or various things from melmin and whatever else I can scrounge up. Some basic stuff is in my playing but a lot of it is a distant dream.
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Originally Posted by rodolfoguitarra
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Originally Posted by ragman1
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post #140
Stop messing your mind up with this crap.
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I don't mind the Greek names... but if they're hard to memorise or problematic for any other reason, why not simply call, for instance, Phrygian "major scale from third degree", Aeolian "major scale from sixth degree", Superlocrian " ascending melodic minor scale from seventh degree"... etc. etc.? Doesn't really matter how you call them. as long as you can play/apply them, I guess...
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Originally Posted by frabarmus
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Originally Posted by ragman1
Stop messing your mind up with this crap.
He also doesn't understand that the harmonized major scale has chords built on each degree, and it also has modes associated with each chord. Modes are just built in 2nds instead of 3rds. Where does he think the modes came from? C major 7 ionian, D minor 7 dorian, E minor 7 phrygian etc. It doesn't mean you're playing modally.
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Nb - in standards the iii7 is most commonly used as a sub for I or Ib. You do quite often see the b6 added on top, in which case it tends to sound like a Imaj9 chord.
So yeah.
Otoh m7b6 is not an uncommon sight in modern charts - for example in the tune I’m looking at in this video Kurt Rosenwinkel ‘the cross’
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Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith
Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith
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Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith
Actually, if chords are made by stacking 3rds then in C maj the iii is Em -> Em7 -> Em9. But Em9 is E G B D F# which you wouldn't play because of the F#.
I don't care about this stuff, I just don't play iii9 in a major key. I don't think I ever have either, it's just instinct or something.
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Originally Posted by rodolfoguitarra
Or at least it’s complicated. The modes *as we understand them* are derived from the major scale and are understood as flowing from the major scale.
The names of the modes as they were applied centuries ago do not necessarily refer straightforwardly to the same thing they refer to now.
So this points again to your problem being just with the names we’re using — in which case—yet again—just don’t use them.
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rodolfo, have you ducked my post? Naughty, naughty :-)
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Originally Posted by rodolfoguitarra
Since they are older than the major scale....they not came from there certainly.
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Originally Posted by ragman1
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Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith
The only time I get caught, or used to, is when I'm subbing Em for CM7. If I'm not careful I see it as an Em in its own right and start using F#'s over it. That's probably okay if it's quick. But what I was tempted to do was immediately see it as a m6 which is disastrous. Not only the F# but the C#. That's the big trap, that really is a wrong move over CM7.
So what I usually do these days is treat all my M7's as M7's, not anything else, thus bypassing the problem.
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Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith
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Originally Posted by ragman1
Originally Posted by rodolfoguitarra
I would like to hear you playing to have an idea of what IS really happening.
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Originally Posted by JimmyDunlop
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Originally Posted by pamosmusic
Originally Posted by JimmyDunlop
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Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith
Playing it like a iii chord.
If I were going to play a iii VI like a ii-V, then it would be a ii-V of the ii ... which is to say it would be more like a minor ii-V than a major ii-V. b6 over the iii chord and b9 and b13 over the VI.
And for what it's worth, I didn't say no one ever plays a different m7 chord like it were a ii chord ... but it's certainly not "the custom."
Stylistically, it's very hard bop, I think.
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I didn't say "the custom", I said custom. Meaning a common device, but not necessarily the most common one.
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Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith
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Originally Posted by pamosmusic
Elias Prinz -- young talent from Munich
Yesterday, 10:24 PM in The Players