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Originally Posted by pamosmusic
I think you mean Freddie Green.
And the multiple chords a bar stuff is a sort of yes and no.
No one said “substituting.” I said “starting with.”
And I specifically said you have to learn harmony too. And shells are actually a great way of making harmony visible on the fretboard because big voicings obscure that.
Mind you, a lot of jazz chord voicings are already short forms of, say, six-string chords. I'm absolutely including that when I say 'full chords'.
Do yr thng
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03-03-2024 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by ragman1
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Originally Posted by ragman1
G and Em etc all have more than one of most pitches. So why are they “proper” chords when shell voicings aren’t?
Again … if someone actually knows what notes are in a chord, then I still fail to see the problem with teaching shell chords first.
I do, however, see the problem with having students flounder with comparatively difficult chords just because they contain notes that aren’t really essential to the way the progression works.
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I deleted my post in your quote before I saw your reply because I wanted to simplify it. Doesn't matter.
No, yours is a typical theory-based answer which is clever in hindsight. You're finding reasons to justify teaching the wrong thing to people. It may make theoretical sense to the teacher but the student doesn't have that advantage. He just thinks goody, I can play jazz with these nice little chords.
Boy, is he in for a surprise.
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Originally Posted by ragman1
I suggest starting students off with something they can play, and give them the requisite understanding to know what they’re actually doing.
You insist that’s ridiculous because they’re not “real chords” and that they have to play at least four-note chords because they’re “real chords” and have no other real reason for it besides principle.
My guy … yours is the “theory based” answer.
Mine is practical, based on what works and what people actually play in the real world.
But again. Do your thing.
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I’ll have to check back in with Christian on “berkishness”
Then again, I might find I fit the definition too.
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Originally Posted by pamosmusic
If I had no knowledge at all about chord structure then it wouldn't be wise for me to start off learning shells. I understand that I also need to learn and play the full chords, but shells allow me to start playing now, which makes me want to play more and stick with it.
No harm meant to anyone...just my opinion.
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Originally Posted by J.C.If I had no knowledge at all about chord structure then it wouldn't be wise for me to start off learning shells.
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Originally Posted by ragman1
I also see what you’re saying.
But apparently you can’t see what I’m saying:
… and give them the requisite understanding to know what they’re actually doing.Again … if someone actually knows what notes are in a chord, then I still fail to see the problem with teaching shell chords first.And I specifically said you have to learn harmony too.I think also to address Ragman’s concern, I don’t think you need the big chords first. But you definitely do need to know what notes are in those chord so that you can interpret what’s going on.
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So you're modifying what is essentially a rather back-to-front way of teaching with a lot of verbal, theoretical explanations about notes, note values, intervals, and so on. To a beginner would that be useful?
Wouldn't it be easier to start with the sort of chords they need rather than make one doubtful move the necessity for another?
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Originally Posted by ragman1
The chords they need.
Those would be shell voicings.
And beginners? No. Jazz beginners? Sure.
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To me that sounds like you're just sticking rigidly to a conclusion. And it's a conclusion that JC, who's actually been through all this (unlike yourself who learnt the ordinary chords first) doesn't support.
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Originally Posted by ragman1
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That's not an answer.
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Originally Posted by ragman1
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It was a statement that would assume a response within the discussion. More than 'Oh, Ragman', that is.
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Originally Posted by J.C.
Those sites are the absolute worst.
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Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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Originally Posted by AllanAllen
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Originally Posted by AllanAllen
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I prefer the arguments, at least they're entertaining.
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Peter vs ragman.
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Not really a contest if you ask me
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Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith
immovable objection
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Originally Posted by pamosmusic
Vintage fuzz on "space" transistors
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