Post-modern bebop? Donny McCaslins OUTRAGEOUS harmony

[Christian Miller]

Going through my channel pruning my output (a lot of vids about the same subjects lol) there’s a few that I think were interesting and didn’t do that well.

so here’s a cool lick from the archive that may interest

I put the music/tab in rather small - it’s legible if you watch it on a computer not a phone. So here they are



I may remake this vid and put it out with a better title and thumbnail actually.

In any case I think this stuff sounds hip AF.
Must revisit this type of thing, not unlike some of Lage Lunds ideas. There’s so many roads untaken….

[ragman1]

What I want to know is:

If it wasn't for the blurb on the video, how would anyone know what he's annihilating? Or, indeed, if he is actually annihilating anything?

[pamosmusic]

What I want to know is:

If it wasn't for the blurb on the video, how would anyone know what he's annihilating? Or, indeed, if he is actually annihilating anything?

.. this is one of those timeless, unanswerable questions.

jkjkjk

The chord changes behind him? The bass? The notes he’s playing?

[ragman1]

You are undoubtedly correct, sir. I knew there was an answer somewhere.

[Dean_G]

Sounds great to me. Good ole Free-bop!
To me it's about the intervallic line construction and the shapes.
Lots of interesting chromatic formulations placed in relation to the harmonic and rythmic context.
Somethings bring to my mind Warne Marsh at times.

[ccroft]

I like Donny. If it wasn't for the blurb on the video the word annihilate wouldn't come to mind.

[Christian Miller]

I was gonna say it was sharp 11 music, but I see it’s not…. Ah well time to watch a ‘those seven times Mike Brecker went beast mode’ vid

(Only seven?)

[ragman1]

Christian -

Can I be honest? Is this stuff actually so new or innovative? He's using the usual tension notes on a maj7 chord, the sharp 5 and 9 (he doesn't use the #11). He also puts in the b7 but as a passing note to the maj7. And there's a chromatic run in the second bar, all of which resolves into a whole bar of chord tones.

[Christian Miller]

Christian -

Can I be honest? Is this stuff actually so new or innovative? He's using the usual tension notes on a maj7 chord, the sharp 5, 9 and 11. He also puts in the b7 on a strong beat but as a passing note to the maj7. And there's a chromatic run in the second bar, all of which resolves into a whole bar of chord tones.

Maybe not. It's kind of what I implied in the video IIRC.

Certainly that's the point of the analyses I made of the lines. Note the enharmony.

Shows how far you can go with simple techniques.

[ragman1]

Maybe not. It's kind of what I implied in the video IIRC.

Certainly that's the point of the analyses I made of the lines. Note the enharmony.

Shows how far you can go with simple techniques.

Your quote's been edited since I posted it to correct a mistake (the b7 is not on a strong beat).

Part of me is wondering if he was thinking Bbm pentatonic, usually used over a G7alt but modified for the GM7.

[pamosmusic]

Your quote's been edited since I posted it to correct a mistake (the b7 is not on a strong beat).

Part of me is wondering if he was thinking Bbm pentatonic, usually used over a G7alt but modified for the GM7.

I think there’s a point with a lot of these dudes where they’re not thinking super harmonically anymore. Like there are all these different ways a Bbm could work over a Gmaj7 but most of them have to do with motion, rather than static harmony. For example a side-slipping chord on the way to a Bm. But stuff doesn’t always need to land the way someone might expect and at a certain point—with someone with the vocabulary and chops of Donny—the melodic structure just is what it is and works because it’s part of a coherent whole and the harmony is just playing a supporting role. Kind of a place to land when he needs a breath.

[ragman1]

I think there’s a point with a lot of these dudes where they’re not thinking super harmonically anymore. Like there are all these different ways a Bbm could work over a Gmaj7 but most of them have to do with motion, rather than static harmony. For example a side-slipping chord on the way to a Bm. But stuff doesn’t always need to land the way someone might expect and at a certain point—with someone with the vocabulary and chops of Donny—the melodic structure just is what it is and works because it’s part of a coherent whole and the harmony is just playing a supporting role. Kind of a place to land when he needs a breath.

Absolutely, agree entirely. However, I don't believe in magic. A player still needs to know where he is no matter what the tune or style. Maybe that gets extremely fuzzy in so-called free jazz but in most notated transcriptions there are just too many right notes for it to be luck or coincidence, especially in the heat of the moment.

[Cunamara]

This reminds me of later period Scofield, as he's gotten less constrained by the harmony. His recent album "Uncle John's Band" has a lot of this kind of harmonic overlays on relatively simple tunes (UJB, Mr. Tambourine Man, Old Man by Neil Young, as well as a couple of standards, etc.).

[equenda]

Sounds great to me. Good ole Free-bop!
To me it's about the intervallic line construction and the shapes.
Lots of interesting chromatic formulations placed in relation to the harmonic and rythmic context.
Somethings bring to my mind Warne Marsh at times.

Also for me very, very "inspired" by Warne Marsh, Lee Konitz....and of course Lennie Tristano.
A perfect example of "White Jazz".......That everyone calls "Cool Jazz"

I am 100% sure that no Black Jazz Musician can appreciate this way of playing. Maybe they're right.

Ettore - Ettore Quaglia - Jazz Guitar and Rare Jazz Records - Home

[pamosmusic]

Also for me very, very "inspired" by Warne Marsh, Lee Konitz....and of course Lennie Tristano.
A perfect example of "White Jazz".......That everyone calls "Cool Jazz"

I am 100% sure that no Black Jazz Musician can appreciate this way of playing.

Im 100% sure that you’re wrong about that.

Miles Davis birthed The Cool.

[Bop Head]

[...] I am 100% sure that no Black Jazz Musician can appreciate this way of playing. Maybe they're right. [...]

Sorry, but this is total uninformed (and racist) BS. A certain Charlie Parker liked Tristano very much and there is even a recording of them both jamming at Lennie's loft with Kenny Clarke (IIRC) playing on a phone book with brushes. Parker also liked the fact that Konitz did not imitate him. Charles Mingus recomended Sheila Jordan to study with Lennie (who made her learn Lester Young solos because she already knew all Charlie Parker solos). On the other hand the "Caucasian" Pepper Adams had problems getting a record deal because he swung to hard for record companies and sounded too African-American ... etc. etc.

This "black jazz" and "white jazz" thing is rather an expression of structural racism engrained in a former slave holding society and of selling strategies of the recording industry.