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Originally Posted by Litterick
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02-05-2023 06:16 AM
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Thankfully I never encountered the word Solfège but obviously heard about Do Re Mi and all that, usually in reference to young children being taught something or other musical.
But, for example, if Do Re Mi goes up the C major scale, what you call a C# or an Eb?
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It's sad that there is a lack of professionalism here on this forum.
I went to school and studied solfege.It was a school of classical music, not jazz.
The solfege classes were excellent - f.ex. you had to sing the notes from the book using do, re, mi, etc.
These exercises greatly developed the so-called musical hearing.There were also musical dictations - you had to sing and write down fragments of melodies.
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Originally Posted by ragman1
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Originally Posted by ragman1
Singing is very important in music schools - without it you won't play properly - singing is the basis!
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Nothing is simple on a Wikipedia music theory page.
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Originally Posted by Litterick
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...just to clarify - solfege isn't just for kids...
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Originally Posted by kris
without it you won't play properly - singing is the basis!
BTW, interesting claim to see on a jazz guitar forum, that you can't play properly without being able to sing. I'd put jazz guitar firmly in the suonare camp (lots of choppy chords or fast scale runs, if you look at it analytically).
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Anything that isn’t the hexachord system or classic French fixed do gets side eye here mate.
‘Te’ and ’ma’???? F off m8
Do re mi fa sol re mi fa is the correct solfege for the C major scale. ;-)
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NB functional ear training which is essentially moveable do solfege is something the missus claims was really helpful in developing her sight singing chops. I think it was helpful to me as well. She was taught numbers, not syllables.
I think all that stuff where you have to solfege every syllable with some chromatic variant of the basic syllables and quibble over the syllables to use with modes is not especially helpful. At that point I think you don’t really need to sing syllables any more, you should I think be able to audiate the notes at this stage. In fact I think that can be a real crutch if you need to solfege everything you sight sing. Obviously more acceptable for instrumentalists.
(I think it’s more common in choirs in Italy say to do a pass through the part as solfege when singing and then do the words afterwards - not here.)
One jazz book that uses solfege is ‘Jazz Ears’; I haven’t looked at it for ages. It has some good stuff in but after a certain point the continued use of solfege syllables seems a bit dogmatic.
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What I don't get is this. The music we know is dots on a page, and has been for long time. Why introduce yet another system to be able to hear that?
I get that when it first came out in year dot it might have had a point but not now surely? I can look at a score and hear it, complete with chord symbols, etc, because that's what I deal with and play all the time. Why complicate it with an intermediary system as well?
Or am I missing something?
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Originally Posted by ragman1
the modern moveable do solfege system is as far as I know the Hungarian system. So that would be Kodaly I think?
I know some frighteningly good musicians who learned this way though. So I can’t knock it.
Tbh I’m sympathetic with your second point. I think people get hung up on the syllables while the powerful thing about solfege is it is about learning the sound by the notes position within the central tonality rather than the intervals between notes; which makes it better for tonal music than intervallic ear training. This ‘easily distinguished singing syllable’ stuff I think can be a bit of a distraction. Good for kids though, esp with the Kodaly stuff .
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Originally Posted by emanresu
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Originally Posted by ragman1
Just by going to school you learn to listen and educate your hearing ... and what will come of it is a completely different story.!!!
I have friends who dropped out of music school and they regret it very much.
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Originally Posted by John A.
And that's it.
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Originally Posted by RJVB
A music school is not always identified with a conservatory.
The human voice is the most beautiful instrument.
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I remember from music school adult opera singers who passionately sang solfege exercises ... funny.
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Originally Posted by Christian Miller
Tbh I’m sympathetic with your second point. I think people get hung up on the syllables while the powerful thing about solfege is it is about learning the sound by the notes position within the central tonality rather than the intervals between notes; which makes it better for tonal music than intervallic ear training. This ‘easily distinguished singing syllable’ stuff I think can be a bit of a distraction. Good for kids though, esp with the Kodaly stuff .
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Originally Posted by kris
Just by going to school you learn to listen and educate your hearing ...
Starting with theory and solfège always feels like putting the cart in front of the horses to me, to a large extent.
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Originally Posted by RJVB
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Originally Posted by RJVB
It all depends on the curriculum and who conducts the classes....I had what you write about in music history class.
If you are an excellent biologist, congratulations.
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But you're not meeting the point about the un-necessity of two systems when one will do. When the mind is young what we're taught goes in and stays there a long time. Someone who's been raised on solfege is going to have to supersede it with dots at some point. One point is that 'do' isn't always the same note depending on context whereas, for example, the note G, on the second line up on a stave, is always the same (unless it's modified in some way, but that's advanced). If kids started with dots they'd be better at it quicker.
Let’s set aside the fact that not everyone calls the note on the treble clef second line from the bottom G (many in the world call it Sol) and focus on the fact that if you want to pitch any note and you don’t have perfect pitch and can hear the note G cold, it is necessary to do so from a pitch reference.
For those who don’t have perfect/absolute pitch it’s always going to be necessary to transform from an absolute pitch reference system to a relative pitch system. Why? Because we don’t hear the note G, for example, we hear, 5th in the key of C, 3rd in Eb, and so on and so forth.
Most of us already use a form of relative pitch notation - 1 2 3 etc. moveable do is the same things with single syllables that can more easily be sung. We pitch C from G for example not by hearing C in our heads but by hearing a 4 or FA in the key of G.
Tbh this is all basic stuff which could be learned by reading up on the subject, or indeed had seriously looking into any formal ear training. I recommend a book called ‘Sight Sing any Melody Instantly’ if you have any interest in improving your musicianship in this area which I doubt. But maybe others will find it useful.
Unless you (and any children you propose teaching) have perfect pitch of course in which case your suggestion makes total sense lol.
Good one!
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Originally Posted by ragman1
Perhaps one should ask the question - why is that so?
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Originally Posted by kris
Transcriber wanted
Today, 04:35 PM in Improvisation