Theory vs. playing by ear

[John A.]

Mordancy: (especially of humor) having or showing a sharp or critical quality.

I wouldn't say that the phrase "two cultures divided by a common language" is an example of irony, which is often "using language that normally signifies the opposite, typically for humorous effect" since it is saying exactly what it means. Although "unexpected juxtaposition" does fit...

The phrase, which is often attributed to GB Shaw ("Two nations separated by a common language"), seems to be a poke at Americans' use of the language.

I can't think of a better example of irony than using a commonality to explain a division.

As to who said it and what it meant, I don't think anyone has ever come up with a specific citation for Shaw having said it. I think It's more like it's one of those witticisms that people figure must have been his since so many others were (a la the many Yogi-isms that Yogi never said). I've also seen it attributed to Oscar Wilde, who actually did say " "We have really everything in common with America nowadays, except, of course, language," and to Churchill, and probably others. Churchill didn't literally say it, but he did write about Brit and American officials talking past each other at times because they used nearly identical expressions differently.

I've never understood it as Brits poking fun at American English. I've always understood it as commentary on Americans' and Brits sometimes being unable to understand each other despite ostensibly the same language. It's a mix of commentary on idioms having contradictory meanings in the two dialects and on the cultures being so different in some respects that using the same words doesn't prevent incomprehension.

Mordancy connotes "bitter" (literally biting), negative commentary. I just don't think this trope is unambiguously that. I think of it more as dry humor (a form of irony).

[Peter C]

Nothing wrong with quaint Middle English words like scallion and faucet, which mostly just drifted out of "facioun" in England. The way you guys pronounce these words may be another matter John A. here sure writes pretty, though.

Regarding this thread, just wondering what Wes would have made of it, not that he would have made it past the first page. How did cats say WTF in those days?

[Christian Miller]

Well gee you guys, all I can see is every time I have one of those internet recipes from from the US, they always ask for cups of scallions and something called ‘kosher salt’

[mr. beaumont]

I've always understood it as commentary on Americans' and Brits sometimes being unable to understand each other despite ostensibly the same language.
).

And my failed attempt at a metaphor was an attempt to compare this to the concept of "theory vs. ear."

[pamosmusic]

Well gee you guys, all I can see is every time I have one of those internet recipes from from the US, they always ask for cups of scallions and something called ‘kosher salt’

Kosher salt is where it’s at.

Table salt is for chumps.

[Chris236]

Bottom line - the thread premise makes exactly 0 sense. theory is a reflection of actual sounds…there is no theory without the ear.

[pamosmusic]

Bottom line Dash the red premise makes exactly 0 sense. The theory is a reflection of actual sounds there is no theory without the ear.

Yes but what say you about scallions?

[John A.]

And my failed attempt at a metaphor was an attempt to compare this to the concept of "theory vs. ear."

For sure, much of the discussion on this thread is using the same expressions to mean different things, so it's an apt comparison.

[Chris236]

Yes but what say you about scallions?

Darn iPhone!

[John A.]

An Irish friend told me his family said Scallions

Smart folks, those Irish. Too bad none of 'em ever came over to this side of the Atlantic and brought vocabulary with them.

[Christian Miller]

Kosher salt is where it’s at.

Table salt is for chumps.

Is Pink Himalayan Salt hand harvested by Sherpas an acceptable substitute?

[Christian Miller]

Yes but what say you about scallions?

I fancy he may be a land lubber! Throw him overboard. Harrrr!!!

[Chris236]

I fancy he may be a land lubber! Throw him overboard. Harrrr!!!

come on now, I live on the coast and have 3 sea kayaks! I’m not much of a flyer though despite coming from a family of pilots.

[John A.]

Is Pink Himalayan Salt hand harvested by Sherpas an acceptable substitute?

Taste- and texture-wise, yes. Kashrut-wise, ask your preferred rabbinic council (and what person named Christian doesn't have one of those?).

[Christian Miller]

Taste- and texture-wise, yes. Kashrut-wise, ask your preferred rabbinic council (and what person named Christian doesn't have one of those?).

Well if the recipe asks for kosher…

[John A.]

Well if the recipe asks for kosher…

But seriously ... Kosher salt is just coarse sea salt with no additives used in cooking. It's called "kosher(ing)" because it's used for brining (which is part of the process of making meat kosher), not because it has religious approval. I don't know how it came to be the metonym for course cooking salt in US recipe-talk.

[Jimmy Smith]

Bottom line - the thread premise makes exactly 0 sense. theory is a reflection of actual sounds…there is no theory without the ear.

The thread title is dumb af. They're not at odds to each other. Everyone (99.9% of people) needs both to play well. It also leaves out a required topic: technical skills. The most efficient way to approach playing well is by optimizing ear, theory, and technical skills, then combining those skills when you play.

[lammie200]

Scallions is a quality word. I think the Brits more miss the mark on their own cuisine. It's like "You feel ok love? I've barely touched your blood squidge and cockenballs."

Fixed it for ya.

[ccroft]

I think scallion vs green onions is regional in the US. In the NE, everybody says "scallion"; I've always thought of "green onions" as Southern....

Here in western Canada I grew up with green onions. Far from the South and sorta half way between US and England with a hard lean towards the old sod. There's a neighbourhood here that's often called 'behind the tweed curtain' for the heavy British influence there, even though we're below the 49th parallel.

Then somewhere along the line they became scallions. Reading this thread I wondered where I picked that up. I thought maybe Portland Oregon. Looks like it was my time in NYC. Now I hear both being used a lot. Anyone like scallion pancakes?

[Chris236]

Western Canada huh?…..I’m more interested in knowing if Sasquatch is real than onion nomenclature. Have you seen him by any chance?

[ccroft]

Not yet. Haven't really been looking for him though. I'm agnostic about Sasquatch, OgoPogo, Nessie and the like. Far more interested in onions. BTW I do enjoy a good 'koshering' of my pork chops.

[Jimmy Smith]

The residents of Texarkana are being stalked by a legendary beast.

[ccroft]

I've been stalked by a legendary beast my whole life. And yet I persevere!

[Christian Miller]

Scallions is a quality word. I think the Brits more miss the mark on their own cuisine. It's like "You feel ok love? You've barely touched your blood squidge and cockenballs."

You have not lived until you try blood squidge and cockenballs. If will make you grateful for all those other moments in your life.

But seriously do Americans beat their chest about their food? I suppose most haven’t traveled much.

Which is not to say I ate badly in the states, but I wouldn’t say there’s much difference to here.

I also object to the suggestion that Brits eat British cuisine. It’s all disgusting apart from the puddings and fish and chips. The latter is now so expensive that no one can afford it and the former is available only at posh schools and ‘Modern British restaurants’ who employ all the culinary arts of Paris to render our traditional faire palatable. For everyone else it’s the nosh of our former vassal nations.

[Christian Miller]

But seriously ... Kosher salt is just coarse sea salt with no additives used in cooking. It's called "kosher(ing)" because it's used for brining (which is part of the process of making meat kosher), not because it has religious approval. I don't know how it came to be the metonym for course cooking salt in US recipe-talk.

I kind of inferred that’s what it was, but the mystery continues….