-
This is why we can't have nice things. Opinions are inevitable here; necessary, even, here being a forum. Having a hissy fit because someone does not like a musician's style, technique or tone seems a waste of time and effort. Far better would be to counter the criticism with positive observations. Denigrating forum members as faceless keyboard warriors is unpleasant; they are members of this forum and deserve to be treated with respect. Famous jazz musicians have opinions but, since they are not members of this forum, we can say what we like about them within the bounds of taste and defamation. We can also say what we like about their music, so long as what we say makes sense.
Louis Armstrong said bebop was Chinese music; he doubtless offended many bebop fans, and many more Chinese, but that hardly matters now. Wynton Marsalis said, 'Louis Armstrong is jazz. He represents what the music is all about,' a claim that is at least disputable, if not ridiculous. We are not obliged to respect these opinions. If you like bebop, go ahead and say what you think about Armstrong. If you dislike Wynton Marsalis, say so. If you think a guitarist is not very good, don't keep it to yourself. This is a forum. Your opinions are needed.
-
05-26-2022 08:20 AM
-
Hmmm, why can't we all just get along ... I know, maybe if we subdivided the forum to keep the warring factions apart?
Let's see ... ok, how about if we have 3 sub forums?
1. Straight Ahead - The Forum for Jazz guitar music that some people find boring, old hat, old fogey, mouldy old fig, conservative etc
2. Sports Jazz - the Forum for the kinds of Jazz guitar that the Straight Ahead guys don't like very much because it's too fast, too loud and unmusical.
3. Nerd Jazz (AKA Maths Jazz) - The Forum for the kinds of Jazz that the straight-aheaders and sports jazz folk don't like because it's too clever (as well as unmusical).
Whaddya reckon?
-
Originally Posted by princeplanet
-
Originally Posted by Christian Miller
-
Two quotes come to mind at this juncture: one from Dirty Harry (regarding opinions) and the other from Frank Zappa. I'm not necessarily a fan of the former, fwiw, but it's a good line nonetheless.
-
Originally Posted by princeplanet
-
So who's going to be the policeman, and keep everyone in the correct forum? Can't have any cross-posting, I suppose.
-
-
...here we are again, so many people thinking he knows the absolute truth...
Do not worry, this is absolute human. Repeated studies proove the majority of people think, they are above of the average. Do the math :-),( if you can. sure all of us can, because all of us is above the average understanding a simple statistic nonsense) The result is practically independent which skills were asked.
-
Originally Posted by princeplanet
2) Get over it.
-
Originally Posted by Litterick
* This covers a lot of territory!
-
Originally Posted by Gabor
So you may dislike the playing of some hot young players, but if that player is getting hired by top professionals it is important to note that your opinion is at odds with the wider jazz community. You may not care of course, but it is a point.
I often feel this way fwiw, but when I do feel this way I think it’s better to look for what those musicians might see in a player who is not to your personal taste.
(By the above metric I note that I remain a weirdo with a focusrite and not playing burning gigs with Blanchard etc)
it’s not always simple; Ornette was a controversial figure who divided the community, and some guys may hate fusion etc but that’s another story; but you can usually tell within a sub community or whatever. I find it useful for focussing on my humility.
-
I was not talking about disliking, instead of declaring unmusical, as absolute truth. Dislike is completely OK.
***
Completely an other topic, but about the art community you wrote about, including both the artist, both the critics and maybe the impresarios... I always have the feeling, that if someone once get the spotlight, the his art's value gets climbing higher and higher until it became tabu to doubt in it. It is a self amplifying process, a positive feedback loop. Many factors contribute to this effect mainly snobbism but also the whish to belong to a privileged circle (I realize this is snobbism too) so correct it to a whish to be an "intellectual"
I am not stating that admired 20th century composers, performers, jazz musicians, painters are not valuable, but probably they (or their impresarios), once had to "sold" the image their art. The less affected are maybe 20th century literature, probably this effect did not derail so easily the evaluation, because every single man can decide if the Magic Mountain makes sense to him or not, so not the community of the critics and other writers decide.Last edited by Gabor; 05-26-2022 at 03:20 PM.
-
The problem is that jazz is changing.
There are great old musicians and a new generation of musicians is growing.
The audiences of jazz music are also different than before.
The older listener has extensive experience due to his age.
It does not necessarily have to accept what is new .
It is all very complicated.
-
In other news, our Prime Minister mentioned keyboard warriors in her Harvard Commencement address:
"In my mind, when I read something especially horrific on my feed, I imagine it's written by a lone person, unacquainted with personal hygiene practices, dressed in a poorly fitted superhero costume - one that is baggy in all the wrong places.
"Keyboard warrior or not though, it's still something that has been written by a human, and it's something that has been read by one too."
-
Originally Posted by Gabor
-
I like Charles' playing, and if anything, this thread brought him to some new ears!
The album he did with Tom Harrell is wonderful, and I dig this concert with Tom and Mark Turner! Enjoy (or not)!
-
Another nice one! Thanks Marc.
I'm grateful to the forum for giving me some things I haven't heard before.
I enjoy his playing and I think his accompaniment is interesting and on it. I need to work on mine.
Some light-hearted comments about Charles, if I may:
1) It may seem like it to us, but he's not that young at 41.
2) He's not that fast.
3) I think he could use some work on his jazz faces, but he looks right at home with Tom on that stage.
:) :) :) :) :)
-
One more in regards to the first clip and the sound: playing outdoors in broad daylight to a small crowd is my idea of a very tough gig. I always hated those, even with an enthusiastic audience.
-
Originally Posted by ccroft
-
Originally Posted by kris
i would rather choose the first.
-
Originally Posted by Christian Miller
-
Originally Posted by Christian Miller
I'm not a pro and can hardly play so my opinion probably doesn't matter, but you're a bad man on the guitar, IMO, but maybe you just run in different social circles then some of these more well known players.
-
Originally Posted by charlieparker
But as a sideman Charles is working with some of the best names in jazz today; that tells a story.
-
Originally Posted by ccroft
Elias Prinz -- young talent from Munich
Today, 10:24 PM in The Players