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I’ll add my $.02. Practice reading in 15-20 minute intervals two or three times per day. Mix stuff you’ve got down with sight reading. Everyday (except Sunday- take Sunday off).
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06-29-2021 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Bach5G
I've been doing that for a while and we read charts.
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Yea... I did the gospel sunday thing for years... probable what got me into the R&B gigs. Not really much sight reading, but fun and I learned a lot...
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Lots of good advice here, but I'm going to suggest something a bit different. Some will disagree, but my experience has been that with few exceptions (e.g. cold subbing in pit orch for national touring shows) conductors, MDs or band leaders don't pay much attention to how well you SIGHT READ the 1st pass through a chart (within reason...a train wreck is a train wreck). What they do notice is how well you PLAY the part on the 2nd run through, or 3rd max. The expectation is that you own the part after that, and are able to play it idiomatically, with the appropriate phrasing and dynamics. If you don't, don't expect a callback.
I know a lot of gtr players who talk about having a stack of music that they read through 1 time and then move on. The problem with this strategy is that while you may get good at sounding all the right notes, you won't get good at "owning" a new part quickly or playing it well, and figuring out how to make it sound good on the fly. On that 1st pass, you're probably grabbing whatever you can, but as you're doing that, you're seeing the better path.
Do a little self-test. Pick a piece you haven't played that you think you should be able to handle and sight read it at tempo (with metronome.) How did you do? Be honest 20%? 50%? 90%? Unless you nailed it perfectly, look it over for 1 minute, make whatever markings will help (in pencil) and then read it again. Keep doing this 1-minute read/analyze cycle until you have the part more or less perfected. How many cycles did it take?
You may be discouraged at first is you find that it's taking too many reps to get there. You may need to scale down and work with simpler material. The goal is to be able to play any reasonable part near-perfectly in 2-3 passes. That may not be the "monster flyshit sightreader" we'd all like to be, but it's attainable for an adult (those monsters often start very young) and as a gtr player, it will put you ahead of a lot of the competition.
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Originally Posted by unknownguitarplayer
I used to use any time before the run-throughs to mentally work out trouble spots, make sure I had the roadmap right, etc. It all helps.
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You can use BIAB to generate solos in a jazz style to sight read along to. Infinite variations, you can choose tempos and keys and you can hear when you get it wrong.
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Horn players rule when it comes to sight reading on the job.
Play live . . . Marinero
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Originally Posted by unknownguitarplayer
TBF if you spend time playing in big bands you will see a lot of the classics over and over.
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Third run-through?
I play in a big band regularly, with monthly gigs. I've subbed occasionally in three others, which are mostly rehearsal bands.
I'm not sure I recall even a "second run-through", at least not in the same night.
Each of these bands has a massive book and the usual thing is to read through a tune and move on to the next one. Sometimes the leader will identify a rough patch, usually in the horns, and run through a section again. The gigging band has a core group of tunes, but often adds another, even on the gig. Most often, I've never heard the tune before. In no case have I heard the arrangement before.
So, in this small corner of the music world, you're judged on how well you sight read the chart the first time with barely the time to glance at every page.
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Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
Most of the times I had the 2nd run-through were for touring Broadway shows and such...which I have not done in many years!
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I’m such a hardcore reader I don’t even do a first run through.
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Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
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Yea... "performance skills". Having technical skills together and knowing how to use them in musical situations, Gigs etc.
Most of my comment were for the OP.... he said he could play... like better than me from the sound of it.
So... he needs to still get the technical aspects of sight reading together. Some how I don't think he's covering any typical union gigs, BB's, shows etc...
Hey Rick... I'm gigging too much already, Tuesdays, Fridays and sundays with bands like you sat in before with... PM me if you want to again.
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Originally Posted by unknownguitarplayer
With older big band charts there is seldom anything that's technically super difficult to play. That is, there are no blindingly fast passages. My difficulties usually center on 1. keeping my place in a chart with unfamiliar rhythms at high tempos; 2. making sure I don't confuse bass and treble clefs, because the guitar part often shows both; 3. following the written instructions which specify which parts of a combined piano/guitar/bass chart are actually guitar; 4. keeping count of long rests while I have to re-center the zillion page chart on a my finite stand (and I have wings and extenders).
In my octet, with amateur arrangers and some transcriptions of more modern stuff, like Steps Ahead, there are sometimes passages that are physically hard to play. Then the problem is paying attention to multiple things at once. So, the chart may have a complicated roadmap, repetitive phrases that are specified by hashmarks (so that you have to read the first occurrence while keeping track of where you actually are in the chart), oddball instructions designed to save paper, odd and varying numbers of bars per line, no indication of what's going on in the rest of the band (a pro arranger will often have some info in the guitar chart about, say, who is soloing -- it's there so that, if you get lost, you can figure out where you are - an amateur arranger doesn't usually think about user-friendliness).
You can practice this at home and that will help.
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Reading the notes is relatively easy, playing the notes is relatively easy. Making the connection from eyeballs to brain to fingers is the hard part. I would suggest starting with the Real Book, read the notes, SAY the notes and play the notes simultaneously. The individual actions of reading, saying and playing reinforces each of the other actions. Start with the easier key signatures.
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Originally Posted by Litterick
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Originally Posted by Bach5G
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Originally Posted by unknownguitarplayer
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In all fairness to guitarists, it is much easier to sight read linear music(horns) than chords and melody(guitar/piano). This is why the guitar was always referred to as the little piano. Written chord recognition is an essential component to the guitarist's ability to sight read charts. Play live . . . Marinero
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Originally Posted by Marinero
So, the guitarist's eyes are moving to the right, but also up and down. When there's a fast passage of hits, it can be challenging to see everything you need to see (and decode it), fast enough.
Horns don't have to do that. Pianists do, plus they have the left hand.
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Classical guitarists are the best sight readers, so I am following their way. I have a graduated classical "axeman" friend, he suggested me a few books to go through and learn sight reading, so I do as he said.
You also should check the sight reading books for classical guitarists beginning from 0, and go thorugh all those books. They really helped me a lot. Ah and yes, 1 hour daily will do the job, you can see the difference in just a few months...
cheers,
MrBlues
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Originally Posted by StringNavigator
Also thanks to everyone who responded to my OP, even Reg; wink, wink lol. No seriously, even though I'm an advanced player who can really play already I actually really appreciated his posts a lot
I'm new here, but this is exactly what I was hoping for here, a vibrant, very supportive community of jazz musicians. I feel like we should become an active community who really support each other, both online here at JGO and out there in the world when we meet/play together. That's what I intend to be as best as I possibly can. Further, I feel that this generation of jazz musicians, the ones who have paid their dues and can really play, should be out there forming bands and gigging as much as possible to try and expose more people to this great music, and therefore bring more people into the fold of jazz music appreciator's. Even endeavoring to expand the jazz audience by incorporating modern sounds into legitimate jazz improvisation and also fusing it, in a hip appealing way, with other forms of music.
Also @StringNavigator since you brought it up, the only "devil" I've ever seen is the lack of love in people sometimes, towards others and even themselves.
Keep jammingLast edited by James Haze; 07-03-2021 at 12:12 AM.
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OK... now comes the time where you need to post some playing etc...
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One more thing that works for me.
1. Start at the last measure, perfect it.
2. Go to the next to last measure, play the last 2 measures.
3. Back up to the third to the last. play the last 3 measures.
Keep on doing this till you get to the first measure.
By now ( an hour later ) you will have read and perfected the whole tunes melody.
Go back and add a few chords.
May not work for everyone but it worked for me as a guitar player learning piano.
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Originally Posted by Reg
I love jazz a great deal, but I have a feeling a rock and roll project is also coming soon. Jazz Jimi from Saturn has that in his bag too. I've been playing since I was 12 and started out playing & loving classic rock music + grunge/alternative, and then I heard a Pat Metheny Group record.Last edited by James Haze; 07-03-2021 at 09:49 PM.
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