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Or royalties, these days.
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03-18-2021 08:31 PM
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I for one am sorta bummed to see this controversy petering out. When I first saw this thread I was hoping for something more like:
What is the James Bond chord?
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Originally Posted by CarlD
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enjoyed the video and found it worth the time. Neely is a smart guy with a good sense of humor.
He's not trying to overcomplicate.
Rather, he's, uh, un-complicating it. ;o)
That's a main point of Ehan Hein's blog post: blues is its own thing (and blues is more than just I-IV-V).
Now I did. Well he is a a smart guy but I do not like this style of video blogging common today - too much audience oriented and often not that deep really as tries to seem. His speculation on 'theory' seemed to me superficious and even wrong , definitely to hook some focus audiences. And also I think he knows that.
Tbh I have the feeling that these kind of things (like Rick Beato too) seem to be educating (and even helpful to some in some cotexts) but in an overall cultural effect they are just entertainment in disguise and lead to exterminstion of real knowledge and thought .
Also I didn't like obvious feeling that they try to sell it. But sales seem to become common trend these days.
Yes... pretty heavy judgement maybe but this is honest
Actually I remember it was discussed here ... the song I mean.
And I played it then and original version too .... and my answer here was somewhat similar to my answer then:then I said it was sort of blues... and forgot it... now I said it was folky simple modal harmony on E myxolydian.. which all actually describes ... blues either.
Or myxilidion of every chord with some domination of E ... also through modal logic of pitch inertion... on guitar it is lower in open shapes.
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Originally Posted by jameslovestal
Yeah ... That is the thing. Neither Elvis or Frank are known for writing songs. Whatever the Elvis or Frank song everyone knows that they didn't write it and thus "It's an Elvis song" or "a Sinatra song" means that their version is the definite version.
Ray Charles wrote most of his material and thus many think that his cover of Georgia is actually his.
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Originally Posted by Lobomov
'Fly me To The Moon' and 'My Way' by Frank Sinatra...
And in the army band I saw an arrangement of My Way sais 'music by F.Sinatra'
With Ray I think - though he wrote a lot of his stuff himself - he did plenty of covers... and I think common popular logics is the same as with Elvis and Frank
Many think that 'You Give Your Hand To Me', 'Unchain My Heart', is also Ray Charles' songs...
It is the particular perfomance style of an artist that makes people associate the song with him.. his personality is so strong that he creates an artistic world of his own and most of the things that comes in stay their as his.
The only exception is when they cover something that was already very strong and individual in performance originally...
for example it is hard to associate Eleanor Rigbey, Let It Be or Yesterday with Ray Charles because their indentity is strongly connected with The Beatles unique voice... (unless of course someone never heard of The Beatles at all)
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'Hey Joe was a song written by Billie Roberts and first recorded in 1961.'
Baby Please Don't Go to Town was a song written by Niela Miller, then girlfriend of Billie Roberts, in 1955.
Full story here
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Originally Posted by Litterick
To those of our friends who deem this whole thread rather silly, I again recommend the Ehan Hein link cited above.
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Hey Joe always sounds to me as like it's a bridge. But missing the verse and chorus. Pretty neat. So, the key aint even there when thinking like that ... could be A
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Originally Posted by jameslovestal
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Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
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Barry Manilow did not write 'I Write the Songs'; Bruce Johnston did. Manilow wrote many other songs.
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Originally Posted by Jonah
How this might lead to the extermination of real knowledge is something else altogether and I will leave you to worry about that.
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I agree with the entertainment part. I'm fine with that. Entertainment is not a dirty word (or pejorative) to me.
I shoud say thereis some ambiguity in English word 'entertainment'. It means also and involving, engaging... which is not bad at all.
I think that French 'divertissement' (as well as Russian 'razvlecheniye' meaning more as 'diversion' or 'dalliance') really describes what I mean.
But I guess they go too far with it those days... after all you cannot and should not try to be liked by everyone.
I can understand that standup comic or circus clown is succesful because he is the most entertaining but when people try to turn every topic in entertainment to gain success ... it is just wrong.
It makes the general level lower and lower.
For me the general problem of all those video blogs is that they do not actually have solid contents.
I know people who teach much deeper and better - and it is not only that they cannot handle modern tools, they cannot handle thet model of attitude when everything shoudl be exchanged into small coins. To be frank they just would never have thought to spend so much time to make such a long and technically elaborated video on such a topic, this is a question of a few seconds explanaton.
It is ok for a 'kitchen talk' (as we say it here) with the friends but not more really...
They have to find topics and to figure out how to make it saleable.
It concerns avry ares - not only music...
When I was a kid there was only one travel program on our TV it was hosted byt the guy who was ex military doctor, who made a carrier in austraunts training program, was a biologist, spoke a few languages and participated in Thor Heyerdahls 'Ra' and 'Ra-2' travels... yes the pace of program was slow those days but when he spoke it was coherent deep speech of an educated person.
He did not speak aout extremely complex things and you never had a feeling that he tries to sell you something or to exchange complex things with simplifications.
And today travel shows - mostly video bloggers that can say: 'That palace here you know it was just 'wow!'
My teacher of musical theory could sit at the piano play any (I mean any!) Mozarts and Meethoven symhony, quatet or sonata from any place - not for competition or showoff - but just becaus ehe was in love with it, he was educated like that...
Casanova and Voltaire could exchange verses of Tasso by heart not because they tried to learn it by heart on purpose but becasue it was the level of entertainment those days. The just knew it.
I actually was lucky to meet a few people of that 'old school' of though and education who has dignity but no snobbism.
My friend Boris Yofee is probably greatest composer living... he began to record his daily quartes on piano about half a year ago (though he has quite serious discography). You know how many subscribers he has? 56.
I do not expect him to be as popular as Holywood actors but he definitely deserves much more more than some 'stars' of modern composition.
And to me it is one of the greatest things that is happening in our times. If something is worth to be left after us this is the thing,
The audience should feel you are smart but not too much - otherwise they will feel insulted (same concerns modern art by the way).
So it is all for sales after all... but not every culture is based on commercial realtionship as a model and not everything shoudl be measured that way.
The greatest respect to the pople is to expect them to be your level and to communicate with them correcpondingly.
I hope you do not take me wrong...
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Originally Posted by Lobomov
If you look at the songs he is best known for, he didn't write many of them.
A short list:
I Can't Stop Loving You (DonGibson)<<<Ray's biggest hit
Hit the Road, Jack (Percy Mayfield)<<<<Ray's second biggest hit
Crying Time (Buck Owens)
Take These Chains From My Heart (HyHeath & Fred Rose)
(The) Mess Around (Ahmet Artegun)
Busted (Harlan Howard)
Hide 'Nor Hair (Morty Craft & PercyMayfield)
Unchain My Heart (Bobby Sharp)
You Don't Know Me (Cindy Walker &Eddy Arnold)
Night Time is the Right Time (NappyBrown)
One Mint Julep (Rudy Toombs)
Let's Go Get Stoned (Ashford &Simpson)
That Lucky Old Sun (Beasley Smith)
Seven Spanish Angels (Troy Seals &Eddie Setser)
It Should've Been Me (Memphis Curtis)<<< Not to be confused with the Yvonne Fair hit from the '70s.
Not to mention "America the Beautiful," "Georgia On My Mind", "Yesterday, and "Eleanor Rigby."
He did write "What'd I Say?", "I Got A Woman", "Them That Got" and "Hallelujah, I Love Her So," and they are all good songs. But Ray was not primarily (or even secondarily) a songwriter.
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Jimi who ?
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Incidentally , it's very helpful of Adam Neely to put the answer to the question posed by the video title, in the thumbnail . Saves us the trouble of watching the video . The internet is starting to make me hate people that explain music . Half the joy is working it out for yourself .
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This touches on a seldom mentioned aspect of what constitutes "Rock Tonality". As a kid I learned traditional music theory from a teacher that was also teaching me Rock Guitar. Learning all the triads in keys and their function (as in Functional Harmony) often didn't square with the songs I was learning. I think I probably asked why songs like Hey Joe could not be explained by Functional Harmony, but never got a straight answer. I looked at many, many books trying to find the answer and was perplexed as to why there simply was no neat explanation anywhere regarding why Rock songs contain the chords they do.
So I figured it out myself - you can play major chords based on all of the minor pentatonic notes, as well as the b6th (C over E pentatonic). I probably wrote 100 songs as a teenager just experimenting with those 6 chords, and was always amazed that noodling E min pent BS over the top of it all always worked! Of course, then I wanted to figure out what to do with those pesky minor chords!
Ah, the world was so much simpler then...
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Originally Posted by princeplanet
I did the same thing as a teen, played power chords and soloed with minor pentatonics. (And there's NOTHING wrong with that---it's a powerful thing.)
As for minor chords: Peter Green! ;o)
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Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
C is the I
G is the V
D is the V of V
A is the V of V of V
E is the V of V of V of V
If you think it's in E:
E is I
A is IV
D is IV of IV
G is IV of IV of IV
C is IV of IV of VI of IV
Now, from a modal rock POV, play E minor pentatonic over all of it!
BTW, the cool bassline helps make the tune.
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If our friend Margo is singing it, it’s in a key about 5 steps from where it should be. :-/
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How about another Joe?? You recognize that voice...
As one poster wrote, best cowbell-centric version of the song.
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Then there’s Love...sounds like the Byrds and The Clash had a love child...
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"Hey Joe" is in the key of E major.
The form is A A A ... as variations.
The song is all major chords only.
Relative Roman is bVI bIII bVII IV I.
Theory of hearing the changes could be either of:
a series of five changes of descending by fourths,
a series of five changes of ascending by fifths, so
both of these cadences point toward ending on E.
Because of the harmonic changes directing toward E,
all four chords leading into the E accept the sound of
playing minor pentatonic (this is a blues / rock song).
Although the Hendrix intro is E minor pentatonic, and
rarely do I hear anyone play those double stops right,
the signature riff at the end of each E segment is too.
There's a pickup riff before the C that is a double stop
major pentatonic of D. This is a suggestion to the way
the song might be played - using major pentatonic riff
ideas for each of the four chords leading toward the E.
So, C major pentatonic double stop riffs, then G major
pentatonic double stops, and likewise on the D and A.
E minor pentatonic may be reserved for the E chords,
and the body of the cadences may support the major
pentatonic expression of the four cadence chords, so
to comprise some ideas with which to make manifest
variations over the repeating aspect of the song form.
Of course for main solos, the E minor pentatonic may
be played over the whole progression as fearlessly as
you might desire - this tune is quite well-built for that!
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