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Hi, I'm new here!
I came from Classical Guitar and I wolud like to learn something about how to improvise.
I've studied "Classical Harmony" at Conservatory but I can't understand the first exercise of this book
It is difficult to me to understand the choice of Mr. Goodrick.
Anyone has got experience with this book?
Thanks
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11-13-2018 06:55 AM
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The book is a look at the many possibilities of the instrument, both in a very specific albeit DIY approach and in a very vast far reaching abstract approach at the same time. I've lived with it as my bible forever. I don't have the book at my side at the moment, but what specifically is the first exercise you're referring to? Are you having trouble playing on a single string? Is this the exercise you're referring to?
It is the execution or is it understanding why this is important?
DavidLast edited by TH; 11-13-2018 at 09:21 AM.
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Originally Posted by Filippo78
as the book is extremely specific I would like to ask a few question:
what style of music you would like to improvize?
can you improvize in classical styles already (considering your backgrousnd)?
do you improvize already without instrument?
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And I looked at the book there are no numbers to excersises - they are inserted in the text - so please wite the page and line.
Thanks
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I'm very familiar with the book, happy to be of whatever help I can.
Keep in mind that Mick's book is not a 'method', where you have to start at the beginning and progress page by page. it's more of a collection of observations on how one might explore various material on the guitar. What kind of music are you interested in playing? Do any of the exercises (playing up and down one string, voice leading triads, exploring counterpoint, etc) seem like they'd get you closer to your musical goals?
While having a familiarity with scales, triads, counterpoint, etc, etc, certainly offer a lot of possibilities for an improvising musician to explore, the book is also not a guideline on "how to improvise" in a jazz setting. A colleague of Mick's, Hal Crook, has a wonderful book titled "How To Improvise" that covers just that. It's for all instruments , written in standard notation, so with your classical background you'd be ahead of many guitarists in ability to read through it.
Best wishes for your music,
PK
www.paulkogut.com
paulkogutmusic - YouTube
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The first activity he lays out is to map the natural notes on each string of the guitar and then improvise over the provided modal vamps one string at a time.
First approach - Stay on one string and play through all seven vamps.
Second approach - play one vamp six times and switch to a new string each time.
Third approach - randomize the process so you are forced to play any mode on any string.
ETA: I wish I had this book when I first started. I think Micks approach to learning scales and harmony would have made a huge difference.
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Originally Posted by TruthHertz
I'm referring to the first exercise. I'm really trying to understand why there are some notes that he considered wrong.
He said dont play : c# d# f# a# Db Eb Gb Ab Bb
I'm used to trying to understand what I'm studying before sto start
Thanks
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Originally Posted by Jonah
Yes I can improvise but I'm not thinking to much Just playing...
I played 10 years classical guitar and now I really want to know the possibilities of the guitar,I was tired just playing without understanding
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Originally Posted by Jonah
The Question is why some notes are wrong to play?
I'm just curious to understand the "way of thinking "before start
Thanks
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Originally Posted by paulkogut
Im trying to understand this book because I want to "understand" the guitar..
It was very frustratring to "just play" for many years; Now I want to understand the possibilities of the instrument in relation with Harmony there I studied for many years but I dont really have the opportunities to understand on the guitar!
The question is,why does he said that certains notes are wrong to play (C# D# F# G# A# Db Eb Gb Ab Bb) in the first exercize (single string playing)?
I dont understand this warning because some of these notes are on the modes we have to play..
I'm just curious to understand..
Thanks for you advices!
Filippo
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Originally Posted by FwLineberry
I'm really trying to understand why there are some notes that he considered wrong.
He said dont play : c# d# f# a# Db Eb Gb Ab Bb
What do you think about?
Filippo
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I'm just curious to understand the "way of thinking "before start
You see... if you want to improvize on standards.. (i still do not quite dig you mean... if you name a player or record you would use as an ideal - it would be easier)... I am not sure that this book is the thing to do now.
But it can be good if you want some modal stuff - especially if you like these zen things and all... but if you want to play Wes-style - I am not sure.
I played 10 years classical guitar and now I really want to know the possibilities of the guitar,I was tired just playing without understanding
I come from classical background (and I still play most of the time on lutes -early classical music) and there are possibilities to know the intrument deeply in classical style and to improvize in classical style.
Knowledge of the instrument is conencted with the style. I know classical guiatrists who can improvize fugues and sonatas.
As for satandards - if you really know and hear classical harmony you see that it is there in jazz standards too... and if you listen to lines of great swing or bop improvizers you'll hear how much they are related to chord tones or to the extentions of chords...
Unfortunately there are no magic methods and magic books... jazz methods are very individual.
Are there any solos you like? Some phrases you like more when you hear them? Maybe it's good to start jsut from analyzing what you really here?
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Originally Posted by Filippo78
THere is no special knowledge in it.. it is strictly methodical.
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The initial exercise is focused on the C major scale and it's modes, (D Dorian, E Phrygian, etc) so you'd avoid playing the notes that aren't in that scale. (Think about the white keys of a piano)
When you move on to playing C Dorian, C Phrygian, etc, you'd use the other notes (black keys) as needed
In some ways, the book is designed so the point of each exercise isn't necessarily obvious at the outset. The idea is to explore a concept and see where YOU end up, and what it might inspire for your playing and composing.
PK
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Ok I was thinking to much!
Thanks
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Ok Paul thanks for the reply I'm understanding more now..it's not obvious at all..this is the main reason I want to explore this book!
Thanks,
F.
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Originally Posted by Jonah
Thanks for your reply
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I can assure you that most of guitar players they dont really understand what they are playing..it's not always necessary.
Ok, keep it up! Hope you enjoy this travel)
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Originally Posted by Jonah
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Originally Posted by Filippo78
Because you're trying to learn the C major scale and it's associated modes. Any notes other than C D E F G A B are not in the scale. The idea is to stick to only notes in the scale in order to learn it.
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Filippo, I'll throw some ideas out and see if they make any sense in answering your question.
The approach in this book is not to install any particular genre specific proficiency in the player's hands but rather to instill a relationship of sound, hand sense (kinesthetics) and a knowledge of the instrument that is so comprehensive that it allows any player to grow and embrace any genre of music. That's why it's called the Advancing guitarist.
So rather than learn any specific "way" to play, or by any particular style, it opens doors so that if you can hear it, you'll be able to feel it and play it. That comes from an exhaustive and fearless familiarity of the instrument.
You see, Mick played, taught and learned guitar for a long time before he achieved his own sense of logic and felt his own mastery of the instrument. At some point, he became the go-to guy for a generation of adventurous guitarists and this approach of "non jazz" improvisation allowed many to embrace more adventerous harmonies and sound. So he wrote this book as a way to get to know the instrument and the sound rather than the genre.
Jazz improvisation is a compositional act. You create a composition each time you embark in a solo, and what you make depends on a lot of context depending on the song, the situation and the people you're playing with. So mastery of improvisation means you strive to eliminate the boundries that are inherent in other people's or genre's approaches and you use the entire fingerboard and 12 notes to create with.
That section at the beginning of the book is a foundation. It's a foundation that introduces you to the sound of "normal" or the diatonic scale. So in learning the single string from different fingers, you establish a spacial relationship with music.
So many scale methods, from Segovia scales to numerous arpeggio exercises establish finger proficiency but not an open ended method to find those sounds everywhere.
The pages you are looking at focus on finding the sound and letting you create the "fingerscape" that lets you realize those sounds anywhere. So you start with a single string. You see the music within that string. You find that musicality in adjacent strings and see how they talk to one another.
In the end, you fearlessly move from one phrase to another within the song form and the entire fingerboard is open to you.
That's the goal. Does that make any sense?
David
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Originally Posted by Filippo78
It's kind of big collection of apparently hippy dippy bullshit which on closer examination can easily consume the rest of your life's practice sessions. For one exercise.
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Originally Posted by Filippo78
Otherwise you'll disappear down some Mick Goodrick rabbit hole and turn up 20 years later with a enormously long beard and an inability to communicate in anything but cuneform.
(I've seen it happen, it ain't pretty.)
This book is really (AFAIK) aimed at people who can already play jazz and are looking for thought provoking ideas. It is NOT a method book for learning jazz.
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Originally Posted by christianm77
Just one exercise sometimes!
I understand what you mean
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Originally Posted by TruthHertz
I cant write very well in English so maybe it seems I was looking for something "strange"to understand,the purpose of Mr.Goodrick it is absolutely clear!
Thanks for your reply,
F.
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