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Originally Posted by JakeAcci
This chord, which has all those notes in order,
is named as:
C13
C7add6
FM11/C
Gm13/C
Am7b13b9/C
G13sus2#9/C
G7sus2add6#9/C
G13sus4#9/C
BbM13sus2#11/C
BbM7sus2add6b5/C
G13sus2sus4#9/C
G7sus2sus4add6#9/C
Take your pick :-)
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08-25-2018 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by bako
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Originally Posted by ragman1
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[QUOTE=ragman1;892839
G7sus2sus4add6#9/C
[/QUOTE]
oohh, thhaaattt one lol
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rags put that in your charts as a jape
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Originally Posted by Lionelsax
How do you know we don't touch a piano sometimes?
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Originally Posted by fep
No... I'm just provocative. Take it easy.
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My knee jerk response without referring to theory sources:
C13, or
Gmi13/C
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Good use of jape
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Originally Posted by Lionelsax
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Dave Leibman has some interesting thoughts on naming conventions in his book on chromaticism.
It's been a while so............but worth checking out if you have the book.
One thing he seemed to like were multi tiered polychords
Fma7
Gm
C
Chord over chord over bass note.
Guitarists, we of course have fewer fingers available than pianists.
We tend to have to imply larger, more complex structures, but still that doesn't alter the content of the source material.
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Originally Posted by christianm77
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Originally Posted by bako
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Originally Posted by JakeAcci
What about context? Is this a standalone chord so to speak (2+ beats), or is it formed by harmonizing an active bass line (one beat)?Last edited by Jazzstdnt; 08-25-2018 at 01:08 PM.
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Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
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Originally Posted by Lionelsax
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Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
Originally Posted by Lionelsax
Where is the planet called Earth ?
That's arrogant... I assume... I hope I'm not wrong !Last edited by Lionelsax; 08-25-2018 at 03:27 PM.
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Originally Posted by Lionelsax
Perhaps I should have clarified that I'm hoping to find a type of "lead sheet" terminology or symbol that could apply to this common sound.
Originally Posted by Lionelsax
Trying another way to phrase my question, maybe I could have said:
"if hypothetically I wanted to find the best possible lead-sheet symbol for a chord that has an 4, a b7, likely a 5th, and the option of a 9th or 13th, but definitely a major 3rd voiced either in the same octave as the 4, or a higher octave than the 4, what would that be? I want the person reading the lead sheet to play something that is a 7sus4 sound, 9 and/or 13 optional, but the 3 is included in a higher (or the same) register as the 4th."
That might seem like a contrived context/scenario, but I don't think of this sound as that uncommon, especially over classic 'modal' tunes or modal vamps.
Originally Posted by medblues
Originally Posted by Lionelsax
Originally Posted by bako
Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
I do think either Bbmaj7#11/C or Gm13/C don't make it obvious that the composer wants an F.
Originally Posted by Jazzstdnt
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I edited the original post in an attempt to be more clear. I'll paste the edit here:
If hypothetically I wanted to find the best possible lead-sheet symbol for a chord that contains:
root
5th
b7
4th/11th
optional: natural 9th and/or natural 13th
and a major third, voiced in a higher register or the same register as the 4th
What could potentially be the best chord symbol to get a player to create this sound?
For discussion purposes:
- This is for a personal organization project, that might down the road lead to teaching materials I am working on
- It would be sustained for a full measure or longer
- I recognize writing out pitches of a specific voicing is a solution, but does not apply in this context
- I recognize some people don't find any use in coming up with 'proper' names for chords, but that's the nature of my curiosity here.
Here is an example of the sound I am referring too, beat 1 of second measure. It's an E13sus4 with a third on top. To me it is still a sus4 sound - the third does not turn it into a dominant sound.
So far I think the most descriptive and practical that has come up here is 7sus4(add3) - or 9sus4(add3) or 13sus4(add3) depending on what's in it.
I was thinking about it more today and I think thing that I want to convey is that the chord really is made from stacked thirds...just starting from the 5th. root...then 5 b7 9 11 13 (1) 3. There's a certain...tertian logic to it, you get my drift? But like I said before, calling this chord, say, Gm13/C, I don't know if it's obvious that the F pitch is essential.
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FMaj7 and C7 played at the same time.
F A C E G Bb
Bass C
FMaj7/C7/G
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Originally Posted by Lionelsax
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Originally Posted by JakeAcci
(D Bmin7 DMaj7 AMaj7add11 F#min11 AMaj7add11 Bb9) on E pedal
Then AMaj9
PfffffLast edited by Lionelsax; 08-25-2018 at 06:39 PM.
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JakeAcci -
You keep rephrasing your intial question, or it seems that way. You said 'What is this chord called?' -
C G Bb F A E
I've shown you and you've answered almost every poster except me! Not that I want attention, I'm just saying. Obviously if that hypothetical chord is a C-something, its name would apply to any other note-name.
The thing is you've put the E at the very top, not as a 3rd. There's actually no 3rd because that's what a sus4 chord is.
Also, you've put the sus4 note after the b7 and not before the 5th (G). So the F is not a sus4, it's an 11.
Which means the chord is incorrectly spelled because, if it has an 11 (which probably ought to be #11 anyway) and 13, it ought to have a 9, and it doesn't.
The A's in the right place as the 13 but god knows what the E's supposed to be because it's off the scale.
Fact is, it's a very odd chord indeed and it's no wonder nobody, including yourself, can name it properly. This is what happens when we try to analyse something that's actually just incorrectly put together.
QED!
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Originally Posted by ragman1
I've shown you and you've answered almost every poster except me! Not that I want attention, I'm just saying.
Ragman's list:
C13
C7add6
FM11/C
Gm13/C
Am7b13b9/C
G13sus2#9/C
G7sus2add6#9/C
G13sus4#9/C
BbM13sus2#11/C
BbM7sus2add6b5/C
G13sus2sus4#9/C
G7sus2sus4add6#9/C
The thing is you've put the E at the very top, not as a 3rd. There's actually no 3rd because that's what a sus4 chord is.
I am personally comfortable calling the note a 17 rather than a 3. The chord is stacked 1 5 b7 9 11 13 15 17, but I recognize that's gibberish to most other people.
Also, you've put the sus4 note after the b7 and not before the 5th (G). So the F is not a sus4, it's an 11.
Which means the chord is incorrectly spelled because, if it has an 11 (which probably ought to be #11 anyway) and 13, it ought to have a 9, and it doesn't.
Practically speaking, chords do not have to have a 9 to be named as 11 or 13. For example, the pitches from low to high, C Bb E A are a common 13th voicing. It is called C13 even though there is no 9 or 11 present.
The A's in the right place as the 13 but god knows what the E's supposed to be because it's off the scale.
Fact is, it's a very odd chord indeed
This is what happens when we try to analyse something that's actually just incorrectly put together.
I think a lot of the objections and resistance to this topic are simply that folks aren't familiar with this common sound. If you dig a bit deeper into many jazz pianists popular during or after, say the 1960s, you'll hear this, but also I even provided a very consonant audio example - notated as well, in TAB and chord grids, of this concept. I could provide many more if needed...it is a sound I'm pretty familiar with at this point.
If it's not a sound you (meaning, you, the reader, not just ragman) are familiar with, maybe it's more sensible to bow out to give room to the discussion to those who have used this sound and understand my intention?
If the answer you (again meaning 'reader') have is "this is a dissonant sound that is not ever used, so a name is pointless, or you can call it whatever you want" then I understand maybe you believe you're being helpful by guiding me away from trying to categorize something you see no use for, but let's just accept for discussion purposes: I have use for this sound, I have use for categorizing this sound, I have confidence in this and don't feel any need to debate those premises.
Please Delete.
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