Gbmaj7b5 Chord Voicings

[pingu]

Hi all,

I got
Xx4311
and
Xx4566
and
X9 10 10 11 (11). ( 9th on top)

Got any other good grips you'd care to share guys ?

Many thanks mates
PS this is for 'the love connection' Freddy Hubbard

[rpjazzguitar]

Hi all,

I got
Xx4322
and
Xx4566
and
X9 10 10 11 (11). ( 9th on top)

Got any other good grips you'd care to share guys ?

Many thanks mates
PS this is for 'the love connection' Freddy Hubbard

xx4311 may be what you meant there.

xx3311 works also, but the bass has to play a Gb. You can play it 2x3311. I like that voicing a lot.

x9856x works. A little stretchy, but you can omit the low note if the bass has it.

xx 10 11 13 13

I hear that sound by playing a low Gb and a C and F an octave higher. Like 2xxx11. So, if the bassist has the Gb, you can play a C and F anywhere and you've got most of it. So, for example you can play xxx566 (adds the third back in). To hear the sound try 0xx344, Emaj7b5.

Another way to think about it is that it's a lydian sound which can be created, more or less, by playing a major triad or 7th chord a whole step higher. So for example if you play a Dmajor triad against a C root, you get 6 9 #11. Play a typical D13 voicing and you get 9 #11 6 R 3 maj7.

[Rob MacKillop]

2333xx

2x331x

[ragman1]

Xx4322
and
Xx4566
and
X9 10 10 11 (11). ( 9th on top)

G MAJOR 7b5 ???

Sorry, pingu, none of those voicings are GM7b5. The notes of a GM7b5 are G F# B Db (3x443x).

Even if you meant G7b5 they still don't work. Can you re-examine which chord you mean?

You might have meant Gbmaj7b5.

[pingu]

xx4311 may be what you meant there
.

Yes I did , sorry everyone ....

Thanks rp
I've corrected the Posting

[pingu]

G MAJOR 7b5 ???

Sorry, pingu, none of those voicings are GM7b5. The notes of a GM7b5 are G F# B Db (3x443x).

Even if you meant G7b5 they still don't work. Can you re-examine which chord you mean? You might have meant Gbmaj7b5.

Yes Gbmaj7b5 ...

Sorry I confused the situation folks ....

[ragman1]

It's okay, got it. I was writing while you posted. Didn't see RM's post either!

There are still bound to be other good ways to play it tho'.

[pingu]

Any more ?
I'd love some more !

[Freel]

X 9 10 10 11 11

I like the thirteenth on top. Fingering LH 1 22 33 or 1 2 3 44.

[wolflen]

the x 9 10 10 11 grip can be used as an Ab13...and from there it could be part of a Db minor 69 pent scale
.. use the chords formed from this scale and some doors will open for you .. nice 3 note grips

[ragman1]

Any more ?
I'd love some more !

It's not really as simple as that because there are so many possibilities. I wouldn't approach it as just 'show me a shape'.

You're presumably using the chord in a chord melody, right? So there'll be a melody note somewhere - usually on the top but not necessarily. That note needs to be prominent.

Then there's the bass note. That needs to make sense in the progression, what comes before and after.

Then there's the notes in between. You know what they are - Gb F Bb C - but not necessarily in that order. One of them might be the melody note. Or it might be an extension of the chord... etc.

Then there's what you're playing before and after this chord... and where you're playing it on the neck. The notes need to flow into each other sensibly.

So this whole deal isn't so simple. You might think I'm complicating it but unfortunately it IS complicated. I mean, you can just throw some chords together but then you don't need to worry about chord voicings very much, you just look 'em up in a chord book!

This is why many players simply adopt an already arranged version, much easier than starting from scratch oneself. And there are books with these arrangements in them.

Sorry if this is depressing or I'm being a wet blanket. Perhaps some other players can just offer a shape or two that hasn't come up yet. But, personally, I'd say it all depends on how you're playing the tune.

[ragman1]

(Of course, the easy way is just to use the CAGED system, grab all the GbM7 shapes up the neck, lower the 5th, and select which notes you want to use).

[matt.guitarteacher]

6/9 versions are nice too.
X98898
2X111X
14.13.13.13.13.X

Helps to know some of the theory behind. #11 implies IV chord of major. "Maj7#11" is probably more powerful in Google-fu than "maj7b5" btw. Anyway, it's helpful to think about the other triads in the scale which contain the #11.

Think Ab/Gb or Fm/Gb for example, and you get an easy way to think about building things. I prefer it to thinking about altering major in the beginning. Eventually, need to be able to think about it both ways of course. But you need to understand basic diatonic anyway, so it doesn't hurt.

[pingu]

cool ...I'm now thinking in
terms of Gbmaj7#11

indeed the chord appears to be
functioning as the IV chord in this tune ...

(key sig is 5 flats) Db or Bbmin
(lots of Bb minor sounds going on ...)

indeed the Db note on the chord in question
sounds good as well as the C note

yeah must be Gbmaj7#11
(as opposed to Gbmajb5)

great .... makes sense

I'll experiment with some 6/9's and
also Ab triads and Fmin sounds
over the Gb bass

fab thanks everyone

[pingu]

It's not really as simple as that because there are so many possibilities. I wouldn't approach it as just 'show me a shape'.

You're presumably using the chord in a chord melody, right? So there'll be a melody note somewhere - usually on the top but not necessarily. That note needs to be prominent.

Then there's the bass note. That needs to make sense in the progression, what comes before and after.

Then there's the notes in between. You know what they are - Gb F Bb C - but not necessarily in that order. One of them might be the melody note. Or it might be an extension of the chord... etc.

Then there's what you're playing before and after this chord... and where you're playing it on the neck. The notes need to flow into each other sensibly.

So this whole deal isn't so simple. You might think I'm complicating it but unfortunately it IS complicated. I mean, you can just throw some chords together but then you don't need to worry about chord voicings very much, you just look 'em up in a chord book!

This is why many players simply adopt an already arranged version, much easier than starting from scratch oneself. And there are books with these arrangements in them.

Sorry if this is depressing or I'm being a wet blanket. Perhaps some other players can just offer a shape or two that hasn't come up yet. But, personally, I'd say it all depends on how you're playing the tune.

thanks for the tips
I'll be playing it in a band situation ...
so thinking more upper structures

[ragman1]

Well, good. That lets you out of the difficulties of chord melody! Thank god!

Yes, upper structures because, probably, the bass will supply your roots. But the same ideas apply, the shapes have to follow logically in context.

But there aren't that many shapes anyway. Like I said, take a M7, dump the root and lower the 5th. There's probably no need to over-complicate it.

[christianm77]

Don't you just take all your major seventh voicings and just flat the 5th?

What about drop 3's on string group x o x o o o?

x 3 x 4 5 2
x 7 x 5 7 7
x 9 x 9 12 8
x 14 x 11 13 12

drop 2/4s?
x 3 4 x 5 7
x 7 9 x 7 8
x 9 10 x 12 12
x 2 2 x 1 2

Loads more.... That'll keep you busy for a few minutes a day. Should be around
12 grips drop 2
8 grips drop 3
8 grips drop 2/4

For starters

[PMB]

the x 9 10 10 11 grip can be used as an Ab13...and from there it could be part of a Db minor 69 pent scale-Dorian flavor .. use the chords formed from this scale and some doors will open for you .. nice 3 note grips

All of the OP's initial grips work nicely as rootless Ab13 chords. Part of the trick, Pingu is knowing your chordal synonyms so that any voicing can be used in multiple contexts. For example, xx4566 could act as a Gbmaj7#11, Cm7b5 (no 3rd) or rootless versions of Ab13, Ebm6/9 and D7#9. The process can work either way - try taking a grip you like for any of those other chord types and make the appropriate adjustments.

[christianm77]

[KirkP]

thanks for the tips
I'll be playing it in a band situation ...
so thinking more upper structures

If you’re comping, you can leave the root and fifths to the bass or piano. Thirds and sevenths (and often sixths) rule!

[pingu]

Don't you just take all your major seventh voicings and just flat the 5th?

What about drop 3's on string group x o x o o o?

x 3 x 4 5 2
x 7 x 5 7 7
x 9 x 9 12 8
x 14 x 11 13 12

drop 2/4s?
x 3 4 x 5 7
x 7 9 x 7 8
x 9 10 x 12 12
x 2 2 x 1 2

Loads more.... That'll keep you busy for a few minutes a day. Should be around
12 grips drop 2
8 grips drop 3
8 grips drop 2/4

For starters

Wow ... Yeah thanks man
And for the video , you're very kind ...

[Reg]

Yea... when playing voicings for Gbma7#11...there really isn't a Maj7b5 chord, unless you spell enharmonically, or use very folkish, or added note harmonies.

Anyway... there are obviously many voicings and some great examples above.... but generally what becomes more useful is to have collections of voicings that have movable lead notes. So three or 4 note voicings that have a movable note on top.

So you need context first... the setting of chord, the function. You said Gbmaj7#11 was a IV chord, with Subdominant function.So that could be your basic reference within the context of the Tune. So Subdominant, so your first relative relationship could be the other subdominant chords.

If Gbmaj7#11 is the IV chord, Dbmaj7 is I and the other Diatonic subdominant chord is II- or Ebmin... Dorian. Now you have another source of voicings based on Eb-, Dorian that will also work within the context.

There are guidelines for how to use related Diatonic subs.... Eb- for Gbmaj. You can use mechanical organization, say Gbma voicings on strong beats and Eb- voicings on weak beats. Or you could think of Ebmin7 as the Relative Min of Gbmaj7#11. So you could have Relative minor applications.

My point is... you need more than just a few voicings, You need an approach for comping. How you use the voicings you know.

Here are some examples...

X X 1 1 1 1
X X 1 1 2 2
X X 3 3 4 4
X X 4 5 6 6 X X 4 6 6 6
X X 6 6 7 6
X X 6 8 6 8
X X 8 8 9 9
X X 10 10 11 11
X X 11 11 11 13

These are vanilla, meaning the approach for comping is diatonic, simple organization. No expanded subdominant organization, like subbing Chord patterns that use non-diatonic chords and still imply Gbmaj7#11 and same function, or expanding the Ebmin7 sub. etc... there are many choices.

There are some basic guidelines when playing chords or voicings,

Lead line is most important, all the voicings can and should have movable lead notes on top... making it possible to create Lead Line with organization . The organization can be.... a counter type of melody (counterpoint). a groove melody, (melodic line on top that creates rhythmic groove and implies whatever harmonic organization your using), or whatever you choose... generally having the guitar choose or by chance, doesn't really work that well.

The chord has a subdominant function... watch how and where you use tritones. Intervals have implications, and where you place those intervals, can have even more implications.

Try and have space between lead notes and the next note, you want the note to be heard, not the interval. This is general guideline, the shape of the lead line and organization can and will change or add to general guidelines.

[Ty123]

Yea... when playing voicings for Gbma7#11...there really isn't a Maj7b5 chord, unless you spell enharmonically, or use very folkish, or added note harmonies.

Anyway... there are obviously many voicings and some great examples above.... but generally what becomes more useful is to have collections of voicings that have movable lead notes. So three or 4 note voicings that have a movable note on top.

So you need context first... the setting of chord, the function. You said Gbmaj7#11 was a IV chord, with Subdominant function.So that could be your basic reference within the context of the Tune. So Subdominant, so your first relative relationship could be the other subdominant chords.

If Gbmaj7#11 is the IV chord, Cbmaj7 is I and the other Diatonic subdominant chord is II- or Ebmin... Dorian. Now you have another source of voicings based on Eb-, Dorian that will also work within the context.

There are guidelines for how to use related Diatonic subs.... Eb- for Gbmaj. You can use mechanical organization, say Gbma voicings on strong beats and Eb- voicings on weak beats. Or you could think of Ebmin7 as the Relative Min of Gbmaj7#11. So you could have Relative minor applications.

My point is... you need more than just a few voicings, You need an approach for comping. How you use the voicings you know.

Here are some examples...

X X 1 1 1 1
X X 1 1 2 2
X X 3 3 4 4
X X 4 5 6 6 X X 4 6 6 6
X X 6 6 7 6
X X 6 8 6 8
X X 8 8 9 9
X X 10 10 11 11
X X 11 11 11 13

These are vanilla, meaning the approach for comping is diatonic, simple organization. No expanded subdominant organization, like subbing Chord patterns that use non-diatonic chords and still imply Gbmaj7#11 and same function, or expanding the Ebmin7 sub. etc... there are many choices.

There are some basic guidelines when playing chords or voicings,

Lead line is most important, all the voicings can and should have movable lead notes on top... making it possible to create Lead Line with organization . The organization can be.... a counter type of melody (counterpoint). a groove melody, (melodic line on top that creates rhythmic groove and implies whatever harmonic organization your using), or whatever you choose... generally having the guitar choose or by chance, doesn't really work that well.

The chord has a subdominant function... watch how and where you use tritones. Intervals have implications, and where you place those intervals, can have even more implications.

Try and have space between lead notes and the next note, you want the note to be heard, not the interval. This is general guideline, the shape of the lead line and organization can and will change or add to general guidelines.

When you say expanding sub dominant organization using chord patterns that still imply the function, are you making reference to pulling from other sources using modal interchange to access chords such as parallel sub dom areas while voicing a lead line that would reflect that starting chord or harmonic area?

[christianm77]

‘There isn’t a Gmaj7b5 chord’ what what? I just played 28 of them! I wouldn’t describe any of them as ‘folky’ exactly.

In seriousness, yeah, the b5 is going to sound like a #11 a lot of the time when it’s at the top of the voicing, cos that’s a very common sound in jazz, and when it is not at the top it will sound like a different chord, typically the upper bit of a Ab13 or D7#9b13 chord cos that’s another very common sound (technically be a Gbmaj7add#4), and when the b5 is in the bass, some interesting locrian chord on C that I cannot be bothered to work out.

So by no means useless.

See above for the post on chord applications.

From a fingerboard mapping perspective it is an interesting and useful exercise. You should be able to take any note from any voicing and adjust to get different chord qualities.

[matt.guitarteacher]

‘There isn’t a Gmaj7b5 chord’ what what? I just played 28 of them!

;-) Made my day. Thanks.

To be clear for anyone else, Reg is referring to a true maj7b5 not being present in major, harmonic minor or melodic minor. While you make a distinction for naming extensions based on which octave they're in?