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Hi all! This site looks awesome. I just starting understanding the modes. It's finally starting to click a little. My question is about the Allman bros In Memory of Elizabeth reed. I think I read an earlier post about this song but I have one question I don't think it addressed. I am sorry in advance if its sounds rudimentary. Progression is Cmaj7-Am- Bm, so it's in the key of G. Why do they say play this in A dorian when all the most work. G Ionian , B Pyrgian, C Lydian, D Mix and Em aeolian finally F# Locrain. They all work. I was going from one to the other and they all sounded sweet. SO why say just A Dorian. Same with I Feel Free , says E Mixolydian. Thanks in advance, AC
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01-18-2008 02:03 AM
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Hi Ac,
Welcome to the forums!
The scales you mention are all the same. G Ionian has the same notes as A dorian, has the same notes as B Phrygian... They all have those notes:
G A B C D E F#
When you are thinking scales, it's easier to think in tonal centers instead of thinking a different scale over each chord. In your example (Imaj IIm IIIm), just think the G major scale.
- Dirk
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Is that G though?
I'd call it a I - vi - vii in C, just based on the maj7 being C. Also G has that F#, so it could get weird with the natural F in the Cmaj7. Haven't heard the song since I was a teenager though...
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Cmaj7th has CEGB there is no F# in a cmaj7th chord, so I am pretty sure its in G. The G being the I followed by the aii biii and IV Cmaj7th i think...
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I gave this song a listen, never heard it before. Where do you hear the Cmaj-Am-Bm, AC? The version I heard is very modal, no other chords except Am and the occasional E7#9. Their solo's are almost entirely in Am pentatonic.
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Agreed - there is no F# in Cmaj7. Thats why I don't think it is in G. Where does the F# come in? It isn't in the Bm or the Am?
Originally Posted by sweetlix
If it is in G then it is IV7, ii, iii?
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An Evening with the Allman Brothers perhaps check this version out. Its an acoustic version. See if you can take a listen o itunes or amazon. He goes in and out of Am pentatonic and A dorian,
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i'd agree with dirk here...
and the f# is in bmin...
F#
D
B
a natural F would make it Bm7-5
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Good point ...ok now i am confused why a G major scale works.... Originally Posted by Adelaarsvaren
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those three chords are from G major no doubt about it
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Yeah, agreed - I was assuming it was a minor 7 flat five - i.e. the vii of C. Originally Posted by danjw
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This is a fun discussion! Does anyone know the song well enough to agree or disagree with me that the progression is Cmaj7th on the 7,8,9,10 frets to Am triad 5thfret back to to Bm triad 7fret.
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In Memory Of Elizabeth Reed Tab by The Allman Brothers Band @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com
so u can check out the progression I am playing. I am using the intro chords to the basic jam..
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Although a typical Cmaj7 voicing is written on the tabs, it doens't mean that it sounds like a Cmaj7, it all depends on the bass player. The bass note is A, so the chord that you call a Cmaj7 is actually an Am9.
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Since Am is the relative minor to C doesn't it all work though. Originally Posted by dirkji
The A dorian that so many people relate this song too would assume that the Key center is in G, yes?. The tonal center is in CMaj or Am9
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Yes, it all works. The tonal center is definately Am, not Cmaj. You can use all kinds of minor scales, modal tunes are not so strict, harmony-wise.
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01-19-2008, 01:26 PM #17Jazzarian Guest Originally Posted by dirkji
I'd say:
Am pentatonic/A dorian
That was long ago, when some "rock" bands were demonstrating intelligence and taste. Alas, such jazzy aspects don't sell, apparently.
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Definitely a huge Allman Brothers fan. I see where your coming from with the Cmaj Am Bm thing. I do, however, think that Dirk's point about the modal nature of the song is a good one. The Cmaj, Am, and Bm all just act as different voicings of Am. I would probably go Am Penatonic, A Dorian, or A Aeolian (although you'd have to be careful... depending on where the Allmans go in the recording you might get a couple of sour notes). Am Pentatonic would probably be your best bet since it works in both G and C. Actually it should work in F too. So that Am Pentatonic pretty much covers all your bases. Weird how the simplest solutions tend to be the most effective. If you still want to get a little bit of a jazzier sound then the A Dorian would be the most effective. And try working in some arpeggios.
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Also lumping Am and Cmaj together and calling it all Cmaj is helpful in learning the modes so it doesnt get too confusing. When you analyzing a song like this, though, a lot of the times looking at it as Am rather than just Cmaj can put a different perspective on things and open up some different options when you're trying to come up with ideas.
and good luck by the way
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Does anyone have any idea how the harmonies are based on this song? This may be a stupid question, but how are the harmonies done? are they played the same way just higher up in the fingerboard or are they based off thirds? Bear with me, my ears are not as trained as some.
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To be honest I'm not exactly sure how their done in this one. I know they use octaves sometimes, but they've also done the same line harmonizing by a set interval (for instance a 3rd above), and sometimes they even do counterpoint type ideas. The Allmans come up with some beautifully simple ideas but at the same time they definitely know what's going on. I'll have to give the song a listen and see if I can tell what they do. My ear's not that good but we'll see. ha.
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Yea my other guitarist has been wanting to do this number really badly, but neither of us can figure out the harmony lines. If anyone has anything to share, Im all ears.
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hey man, I would just go for it. You might as well. If you can't figure out their harmonies then try to work up your own. Probably would be a pretty fun project. Cool to see what you come up with too. Good luck.
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I vaguely remember my music instructor say that playing in octaves doesnt sound to hot. I know that if we were to play on the same frets it would be awful, but would harmonizing in octaves be acceptable? If not, we have been using fifths for the time being and it sounds alright. I know that most of the lines are based off the minor pentatonic and dorian modes? Perhaps i could harmonize with one of those scales? Thanks for all the help so far.
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I know the song also, but like everyone else, it has been a while. What I remember about the Allmans is how melodic they were. Given that harmonizing in 3rds and 6ths come across as pretty melodic, I would try harmonizing the lines with those first.
4ths are angular and modern sounding, 2nds & 7ths I haven't used before, and 5ths give you the same sort of sound we get from power chords. There maybe some unison stuff an octave above. Anyway, that is my best guess for whatever it is worth.
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