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Hi everyone,
can someone help me with this kind of chord ?
here's the notes :
Bb, Db, Gb, C
it seems to me as a suspended chord, like Absus2...
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10-02-2017 12:20 PM
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What's the context?
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1:40
David
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Oh Bako, you could have SO much fun with this question.
Fra88, any one of those notes can be a root, or a tension, or a chord tone, and the power and utility of any aggregate of notes is what they serve in the role of the tonality you've established.
What mr. beaumont said.
Where'd this come out of? Nice chord by the way!
David
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Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
I'm harmonizing the scale beginning with this chord on the first grade:
Eb, Gb, C, F
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Looks like a Gb#4, 1st inversion. But it could be a lot of things.
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Fra88
Bb, Db, Gb, C
Eb, Gb, C, F
(If you're harmonizing in Db, the next chord up is F Ab Db Gb and your guess is as good as mine).
May one inquire what it's all about? It's far too complex but it does sound very nice, I've tried it :-)
* Alternatively, you could always shoot yourself, might be easier Why don't you do it in C and then adjust?
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Originally Posted by ragman1
I forgot to say that i found this chord : Bb, Db, Gb, C, on the fifth grade; that's why i thought it was connected with Ab chord in some ways.
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Originally Posted by Fra88
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Ragman. I’m not understanding your logic. If it’s in the key of Db it’s a Bbmin chord? If it’s in Db it’s a Gb#4 or #11. That’s a IV chord. What did I miss?
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What David was talking about when he mentioned my name was that sometimes I have charted out the intervallic relationshipbetween a given structure from every possible root.
The findings are then considered from a major, minor or dominant perspective.
Sometimes it is easiest to view something as a hybrid chord (polychord).
The way we choose to name a chord points towards a function. If a name
is to be believable then we must be able to contextualize it in a chord sequence
using said structure in that function.
Simple answer: Gb(add#11)
If this was the context:
Bb Db F C | Bb Db F# C | Bb Db G C | Bb Db Ab C ||
then I would think of it as Bbm9#5(no 7)
Last edited by bako; 10-02-2017 at 05:25 PM.
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Originally Posted by henryrobinett
Say you were in C, the notes would be ACFB. If it's an F chord it would be inverted. But he said he's harmonising the scale, which means each note in turn becomes the root - C, Dm, Em, F, G, Am - Am is the 6th degree up.
So it's not an inverted F chord, it's a strange type of Am chord, hence trying to find a suitable name.
I saw that interview you did the other day, by the way. Terrific :-)
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Thank you very much regarding the acknowledgment about the interview.
I don’t know why we should think of a chord always being in root position. Even going up a scale I don’t think of root position, particularly.
I mean it COULD be a Bbm9#5 no 7, but that’s real awkward. It’s easier for me to think of that as a Gb#4, 1st inversion. I think sometimes we guitar players get stuck on roots, or something. If we played piano we could see it easier.
I’m not insisting I’m right. I was just trying to understand how you got where you got!
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Originally Posted by Fra88
You haven't answered my question. What is all this? Why is it so complicated? Why Db, not C? I see there are a lot of 6 chords in it too so it may be something to do with Barry Harris... but not necessarily.
(I'm trying very hard to stop myself wondering why you're doing this at all. Is somebody making you do it or is the torture self-inflicted?!!)
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Originally Posted by ragman1
Anyway, yes i do mean the 5th degree of the scale, starting from Eb not Db. Why we can't think like that ? We can substitute the root with another note (the 9th in this case) and find another chord voicings along the scale.
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Originally Posted by Fra88
See, correct me if I'm wrong, but if you take a Dm69 from the C maj scale (sorry, let's keep it simpler) and harmonise in 4-note chords then you do come up with interesting chords, all diatonic.
Or you could alter a chord from the C scale, say G7 to G7b9, and do the same. The trouble there is that, when you get to the Ab, do you raise the next pitch by a half-step or a whole step? I don't know if you see the point there. There are no 7b9 chords in any minor key - natural, harmonic, or melodic minor (if you harmonise in 4-note chords) - so you can't just suppose it comes from C harmonic minor.
So what do you do? Remove the G root and you have a B D F Ab diminished chord... but what key is that? Etc etc.
It probably doesn't matter but then you also have the problem of what to call these new sounds - hence your original question, I'm assuming.
But I'd say if you keep it diatonic then the chord name should relate firmly to the original scale. At least, that's the way I'd see it.
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When you call a collection of notes a Chord... your implying a root. If your talking about a voicing, then the root has options.
If your making an analysis... you need context for the analysis to have reference.
The notes sound lydian... or aeolian so either Gb or Bb... which have a relative relationship.... Root motion of up or down 3rds have functional relative relationships. But now we're getting into compositional theory.
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Originally Posted by Reg
(Not you, the theory!)
you need context for the analysis to have reference
He said he's just harmonising the Db maj scale.
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I’m a composer. Perhaps mainly. I think about these things compositionally. Thanks Reg. I was going to bring this angle up.
The reason you call chords by certain names have different reasons. It depends on overall function. It also depends on usefulness to the player. I’m writing a chart. Often times the result is the same between functions. But one can click with the player. The other makes him scratch his head and think. A piano player (me too), can relate to the above example as Gb#4. That just makes sense to me. If I’m improvising I can simplify it to a Lydian sound. But for a Bbmin b6 no 7 I have to jump through some mental hoops. First off if I see Bbmi b6 I immediately invert that to a Gb 1st inversion. Lol. That’s so I can think with it.
There’s a big difference I see with Guitar players who get really introverted into what to call certain grips.
Gotta get back practicing. Hope something made sense.
Also I really don’t understand this going up the scale and having to reference roots and what to do with the G7b9.
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkLast edited by henryrobinett; 10-03-2017 at 07:12 PM.
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Originally Posted by Reg
But for me you have to do always a scale in your mind.
For example in a tune by Pat Metheny i've found this voicing over a Cm7 chord :
Eb - Bb - D - F
and i've asked myself: where it came from? what is the corresponding scale for this voicing?
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Originally Posted by Fra88
In relation to a Cm7 the notes are:
Eb - 3
Bb - 7
D - 9
F - 11
So really it's just a rootless Cm11 (I'm assuming the bass is playing C - or maybe a piano's playing Cm7 or m11).
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Fra88 -
You've got to think in context. Out of context very few things have meaning.
If I just said the word 'fire' what does it mean? Something's on fire? Or a nice room fire in the grate? Or someone's been sacked from their job?
I think maybe you're looking at the word 'fire' by itself and trying to figure it out, if you see what I mean. You need the context to make sense of it, right?
Those notes over a Cm7 make sense when applied to that chord. Otherwise it's just a few notes with maybe quite a few names depending on how they're being used, like Fm6sus4 or Dm#5/Eb... you could go bananas!
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Originally Posted by TruthHertz
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Originally Posted by Fra88
Gb triad with #4
Gminmaj11b5
Ab7sus4 with third on top
A13b9#9 with no 7th (from diminished scale)
Bbm9#5
Bmaj9#15(no3)
C7b5b9(no3)
Dbmaj13, with 11, no 3, no 5
Dmaj7#5b14
D7#5 with nat 7
Ebm13
Emaj13#11#20 (no 3)
F7sus4b9
but we'll never know...
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Originally Posted by JakeAcci
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