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I don't have the advantage of a teacher or formal instruction, so when I'm using the Levine's Jazz Theory Book I wonder how to translate it in a way that makes sense to the guitarist.
For example, looking at the first page of the 2nd Chapter, there are four examples of II V I progression. What I have done is play full barre chords, just playing quater and half notes as written so I know where on the fretboard they are and internalize how they sound. This may not accurately reflect what written out in standard notation which is probably more appropriate to a keyboard approach.
So any insight of getting the most out of book like this that is not strictly for guitarists would be great.
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08-13-2009 04:23 PM
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Stay away from full barre chords. Stick with 4 note voicings. It would be a good idea for you to reduce your barre chords down to contain 1-3-5 and one doubled note for pure chords and 1-3-5-7 for sevenths. At least while you try to sort it out
[chord]
||-1-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||-1-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|-2-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|4--|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|-3-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||-1-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
[/chord]
Can be reduced to
[chord]
||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|x
||-2-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|-3-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|-4-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|x
||-1-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
[/chord]
And try to keep the chords close, one after the other. Don't jump around. Look to see how one chord changes into the next using the least amount of movement and looking for commom tonesLast edited by JohnW400; 08-13-2009 at 04:46 PM.
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There's theory and there's practice. The theory should be, uh, theoretical. Not instrument specific. The practice is where the rubber meets the road --> the fingers meet the fretboard. See how I applied that tired old expression to our situation?!
Chord voicings are a good example. You can't expect to duplicate what a pianist can do.
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I am reading The Jazz Bible as well - i am not practicing with it, using Ted Greene and Mickey Baker for daily practice. I am just reading and re-reading the first few chapters to try to internalize them.
You can get a ton out of the book even if you don't practice with it.
I have played a few of the examples on keyboard- but I know if I would spend too much time figuring out how to voice the examples that I would not be learning as much as I can. there is a chapter that I am coming up to about how to use the scales and that is when I plan on practicing with it.
Such a good book!
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Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
Bmi9(11)
[CHORD]
||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|4--|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|1--|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|3--|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|3--|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|2--|---|---|---|---|
[/CHORD]
[CHORD] E13 b9
||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|-4-|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|-1-|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|--3|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|-1-|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|-2-|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
[/CHORD]
However, when your first starting out,keep it simple
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You can come very close to some standard piano voicings on guitar. They are usually extremely awkward and downright painful, but it can be done (see Ted Greene or Lenny Breau).
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As to the original question: no, don't use barre chords! Learn the basic jazz chords and inversions. They are in the lessons on this site or any good chord dictionary. Just try to harmonize the top notes with some of these basic 7th chord voicings. DON'T worry about piano voicings just to be "difficult", for example, but make sure you are using JAZZ voicings.
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Bmi9(11)
[chord]
||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|4--|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|1--|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|3--|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|3--|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|2--|---|---|---|---|
[/chord]
Ouch! What big mitts you have! Even omitting the top note, I can't do that chord as written, with the 3-3 barre. Am I inadequate? Can all you other cats squeeze that off in the middle of your CM arrangement of Donna Lee?
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Leave off the 2 on the 6th and play it xx2314. Move it down a whole step and use open A.
Nice remark but if I could squeeze off a CM of Donna Lee at 240 BPM using chords like this, chances are I wouldn't be at my day job hacking out a living
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One of the most beneficial things I ever did early on was to figure out the standard 4-note 7th chords for myself. I started with the middle strings (5-4-3-2) and just extrapolated on the roots-position voicings that I already knew to get the other inversions.
For example, I already knew C7 with the root on the A string:
[CHORD]
||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|-4-|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|-2-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|-3-|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|-1-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
[/CHORD]
I noticed that on the 5-4-3-2 strings, the chord tones were R-5-b7-3. So I then moved R up to the next chord tone: 3. I moved 5 up to the next chord tone: b7. I moved 7 up to the next chord tone: R. And I moved 3 up to the next chord tone: 5. What I ended up with was C7 in 1st inversion (3-b7-R-5):
[CHORD]
||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|-4-|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|-1-|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|-3-|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|-2-|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
[/CHORD]
And so on and so forth. I did this for dom7, Maj7, min7, m7b5 and dim chords. I shedded these for 6 months before I had them down (and I'm still working on some of them).
THEN, I did the same exercise, only this time with strings 6-4-3-2. And THEN I did strings 4-3-2-1.
I stopped there.
This has really done wonders for my ability to comp without sounding too boring, and (particularly for the 4-3-2-12 voicings) helps out a lot with chord melody arrangements.
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Originally Posted by FatJeff
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Originally Posted by WhollyCats
[CHORD]
||---|-1-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|(1)|-3-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|-1-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|-1-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|-1-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
[/CHORD]
(Bmi11)
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Originally Posted by WhollyCats
ii - V9
[CHORD]
||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|-3-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|-3-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|-3-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|-x-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|-2-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|-3-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|-3-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|-1-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|-2-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
[/CHORD]
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Originally Posted by FatJeff
[chord]
||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|-7-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|-3-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|-1-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
[/chord]
(No, I don't have seven fingers on my left hand! I'm just labeling the notes with their scale function. Finger as you wish.)
As always, you can omit the root if that's appropriate (bass player covering it, you're sketching a bass line in CM...)
Okay, then 9th's can be played on the B string and/or 5ths-13ths on the E:
[chord]
||---|-b5|-5-|-#5|-13|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|-b9|-9-|-#9|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|-7-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|-3-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|-1-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
[/chord]
That's a lot of possible chords in one diagram. In the same way, I can do this with R-7-3 on strings 6-4-3 , for example Gdom7s
[chord]
||---|---|---|-b9|-9-|-#9|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|-b5|-5-|-#5|-13|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|-3-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|-7-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|-1-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
[/chord]Last edited by BigDaddyLoveHandles; 08-14-2009 at 10:55 AM.
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Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
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Originally Posted by JilaX
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Originally Posted by derek
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Originally Posted by derek
Touché
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I forgot about how this forum fills me with excitement, awe, dread, panic and ultimately low self esteem
Always a desire to be putting in more work than I am doing though!
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Originally Posted by DonnyK
Take pride and enjoyment in what you can play and strive to keep growing as a musician. Thats all anyone can hope for.
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Originally Posted by JohnW400
We all come at this thing at different stages in life, with different backgrounds, different demands on our time, etc. Thing is, enjoy the ride, because it is a long and difficult one. Speaking to myself as much as anyone.
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Cheers guys, that remark was meant with tongue firmly in cheek, but appreciate the words. Just getting back into practice after moving house and all the rigmarole that entails. Finally found my way back on here. I am in awe of the knowledge a lot of you guys have. Need to put the hard work in myself is all. Seem to go through spells of commitment.
Ta again!
Moffa Mithra
Today, 08:31 AM in For Sale