A few harmonic analysis questions, Along Came Betty

[edh]

Ditto what he said in the above post.

[christianm77]

i dont know how to analyze this tune in functional way. since not all chords are functional. or unless your a riemannian. and this tune is also irrelevant to schenkerian theory. since it doesnt start and end with a same tonic. though i know some college professors invented new theory accordingly to fit the peg into hole. however the melodic structure could be still problematic. deviating from the philosophical basis of the very idea.

sorry i cant help. this thread make me want to convert. thats all i want to say.

The tune is actually pretty functional apart from those classic Benny Golson sideslips. The key is Ab major with modulation (obviously) but in terms of practicing it I would tend to be quite methodical about playing on each ii-V as it's quite a slow tune.

In contrast one can be a little faster and looser with Moments Notice if only because it is faster, although the harmony is a similar mix of classic bebop changes and sideslips from underneath.

These tunes take Barry Harris style approaches very well. Melodically Along came Betty has a lot of that type of language going on.

[christianm77]

To me that sounds like a very superficial use of written music. I think that the written music should describe how we hear the (tonal) music. It seems an obvious point to me really that since the music has a point of gravity like a root the system for notating it is refined enough to reflect that.

I find Donna Lee in the omnibook horrible to read because I need an accidental to read the root and the 5th of the key (which are fairly often part of the melody) and then all the passing notes have no accidentals but the notes of the key does?

Accidentals are not difficult to read, but if I have to always keep track of if they mean Ab instead of A or Eb instead of E (again these are really common notes in that key) then I have to spend a lot of energy on that.

Jens

Yes I agree what's the problem with key signatures, especially for a tune like DL which is clearly in Ab/Fm throughout?

Also I find the very act of writing a tune like that out with a key signature gets you into doing some analysis of the scalar lines and such.

[rintincop]

Here is an example of distant ii V side-slipping technique ("displacement) on a Bb Rhythm changes bridge played by Monty Alexander:

Original Bridge
|| A-7 | D7 | D-7 | G7 |
| G-7 | C7 | C-7 | F7 ||


BECOMES
||A-7 D7 |Eb-7 Ab7 |D-7 G7 |Ab-7 Db7 |
|G-7 C7 |Db-7 Gb7 |C-7 F7 |F#-7 B7 ||

Another situation , "The Work Song"
Solos on:
| G-7 | C7 | G-7 | C7 |

BECOMES (half step displacement)
| G-7 C7 | Ab-7 Db7 | G-7 C7 | Ab-7 Db7 |

[JensL]

Here is an example of distant ii V side-slipping technique ("displacement) on a Bb Rhythm changes bridge played by Monty Alexander:

Original Bridge
|| A-7 | D7 | D-7 | G7 |
| G-7 | C7 | C-7 | F7 ||


BECOMES
||A-7 D7 |Eb-7 Ab7 |D-7 G7 |Ab-7 Db7 |
|G-7 C7 |Db-7 Gb7 |C-7 F7 |F#-7 B7 ||

Another situation , "The Work Song" (similar to Betty)
Solos on:
| G-7 | C7 | G-7 | C7 |

BECOMES (half step displacement)
| G-7 C7 | Ab-7 Db7 | G-7 C7 | Ab-7 Db7 |

I would consider the first one tritone substitution more than side slipping.

It is essentially D7 Ab7 G7 Db7 C7 Gb7 F7 B7

Jens

[bako]

Brainstorming out loud (well short of an analysis)

The song is loosely in key of Ab based on where it begins and ends.

1-4 Bbm9 feels like the center of activity, Bm9 E7 feels like bVI7. First chords often sound centric
until proven otherwise.

5-8 pivoting off of the upper II V, Bm9 E7 to Ama7. If I take Ab7 to be I7 and Gb7 to be bVII7 then Ama7 and Gma7 function as another bVI to V7 kind of motion, although Ama7 feels like an arrival point of sorts which contradicts the aforementioned details.

9-12 Major to minor transformation F#7 > F#m9 Parallel event, down a major 3rd, F#m9 feels like the center of activity (key of E, by the same logic as above)

13-16 pivoting again off of the upper II V to Fma7 to the relative minor via A7b9. Dm7 G7 continues the cycle movement.

17-20 is like Autumn Leaves in miniature, II V to Bb and IIm7b5 V to Gm

21-24 Em7b5 A7 I hear as a C7 sub, diminished scale game, leads to Fm7 Bb7.
If that II V is viewed from an Ab major perspective they are IIm7 V7 of V7 (Eb7)
Bb7 is also the tritone sub of E7 which is the most travelled path back to Bbm9 in this song.

25-28 restatement of 1-4 Previous Bb7 > Bbm7 another major to minor transformation.

29-32 a variant III VI II V turnaround using minor cadential colors, IIIm7b5 VI7 IIm7b5 V7

33-34 Resolution on Ab, using Bm9 E7 to lead back to the top.

Fair number of progressional moves packed into the 34 bar form.
If I were to venture a guess into the general thought process, I would say that Benny Golson was playing with dual functionality of various chords.

In comparison to Moments Notice:

They both cue off of the upper II V to move forward but for Along Came Betty the lower II V is in the key and in M.N. the upper is.
Moments Notice also has the portion of the progression where Eb major is definitively established.

So who is Betty?

[Jonah]

2. Similarly, is there language to describe a ii V based on a subV? ex, say it's

Ebm7 Ab7 Dm7 G7 Cma7

From purely hearing point... I could suggest that this turnaround is related to the altered scale...
I mean that the sound effect is very similar...
it's just that 'altered sounds' do not mix with basic harmony go consequently...

1. First of all, is there a term for this type of progression, say, in the key of C:

Dbm7 Gb7 Dm7 G7 Cma7

Happens in a bunch of tunes, like Moment's Notice and Serenity

Simplified we've really just got Gb7 to G7 to Cmaj7. So I know this happens in a lot of tunes, but is there any rationalization of it? Dominant from a half step below...There can be some diminished relationships that help explain...? I know at the end of the day play strong voicings, lines, rhythms, etc, and you can 'sound good' but I am curious about where this sutff comes from.

Functionally once could explain it like extention od classical VII lead chord (which is diminished)... raising 3rd and 5th and 7th to release in parallel movement to next chord 3rd, 5th,7th... that is dominant fuction

THis could be seen more distinctly if we add D bass below - we will have D-F#-A#-C#-E Dmaj7aug (9)

(try voicing x54320)

It's not D7 chord of course... but maj7th (C#) here does not make it real maj7th but rather is 'alteration' of min7th to make realease to D instead of B of the followin G chord.

Another way is to consider it IIIbdim with bb7th

[christianm77]

Dominant a half step below resolving into a target chord always sounds great. Try it.

Fun on a ii V i

[Jonah]

Dominant a half step below resolving into a target chord always sounds great. Try it.

By the way Peter Bernstein plays it a lot in his solo performances

[JakeAcci]

Brainstorming out loud (well short of an analysis)

The song is loosely in key of Ab based on where it begins and ends.

1-4 Bbm9 feels like the center of activity, Bm9 E7 feels like bVI7. First chords often sound centric
until proven otherwise.

5-8 pivoting off of the upper II V, Bm9 E7 to Ama7. If I take Ab7 to be I7 and Gb7 to be bVII7 then Ama7 and Gma7 function as another bVI to V7 kind of motion, although Ama7 feels like an arrival point of sorts which contradicts the aforementioned details.

9-12 Major to minor transformation F#7 > F#m9 Parallel event, down a major 3rd, F#m9 feels like the center of activity (key of E, by the same logic as above)

13-16 pivoting again off of the upper II V to Fma7 to the relative minor via A7b9. Dm7 G7 continues the cycle movement.

17-20 is like Autumn Leaves in miniature, II V to Bb and IIm7b5 V to Gm

21-24 Em7b5 A7 I hear as a C7 sub, diminished scale game, leads to Fm7 Bb7.
If that II V is viewed from an Ab major perspective they are IIm7 V7 of V7 (Eb7)
Bb7 is also the tritone sub of E7 which is the most travelled path back to Bbm9 in this song.

25-28 restatement of 1-4 Previous Bb7 > Bbm7 another major to minor transformation.

29-32 a variant III VI II V turnaround using minor cadential colors, IIIm7b5 VI7 IIm7b5 V7

33-34 Resolution on Ab, using Bm9 E7 to lead back to the top.

Fair number of progressional moves packed into the 34 bar form.
If I were to venture a guess into the general thought process, I would say that Benny Golson was playing with dual functionality of various chords.

In comparison to Moments Notice:

They both cue off of the upper II V to move forward but for Along Came Betty the lower II V is in the key and in M.N. the upper is.
Moments Notice also has the portion of the progression where Eb major is definitively established.

So who is Betty?

thanks Bako, good stuff. Some things I hadn’t considered.

Betty was likely Golson's harmony teacher. She came along and showed him some interesting progressions.

[EJGuitar]

this tune is definitely non-tonal in term of not having tonic enclosure as fundamental structure. despite prevalent tonic-dominant function it shows.

but we can use auxiliary cadence as a model to emulate the tonal structure. so we can still apply level analysis to non-tonal music.

here is my analysis.

first we have to dissect ii-V-I progression by leaving the tonics only (except the last ii-V-I). then put it side by side with the rest of the chords.

Bbm7 AM7 Ab7 GM7 F#m7 F Dm Cm F7b9 Gm7 G/F Em7b5 A7#9 Fm7 Bb7 Bbm7 Bm7 E7 Bbm7b5 Eb7 AbM7

from Bbm7 to F is linear progression. Dm is subordinated to F. and Bb is the headtone. so we have to ditch a couple chords again >>>

Bbm7 Cm F7b9 Gm7 G/F Em7b5 A7#9 Fm7 Bb7 Bbm7 Bm7 E7 Bbm7b5 Eb7 AbM7

F7b9 is subordinated to Cm. and Cm is subordinated to Gm7 where Em7b5 is the headtone making another linear chord progression >>>

Bbm7 Em7b5 A7#9 Fm7 Bb7 Bbm7 Bm7 E7 Bbm7b5 Eb7 AbM7

from Emb7b6 up to Bbm7 we have a chain of subordination. same goes to Bm7 E7 Bbm7b5.

Bbm7 and Bbm7b6 is only a bass repetition. from there we already arrived at the background level.

finally the fundamental structure of the progression is ii-V-I or Bm7-Eb7-AbM7.

btw, we havent analysed the melody structure yet. if that cant confirm the structure of the bass then the context would be different. in other word this progression could be polytonal from the very beginning.

[PMB]

So who is Betty?

Betty Pritchett was a woman that Benny Golson met and fancied in Ohio in the early '50s. He tried to capture the rhythmic feel of her walk in his tune.

[Jonah]