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I finished the Burton video. No more about chords or scales, but that tidbit that he doesn't transcribe. Apparently, another door into jazz involves perfect pitch, a deeply musical family and a lot of talent.
But back to CST. Most of what I read about it indicates that it refers to scale choices over a single chord -- and that the choices have to be made based on the harmonic context (meaning the chord progression) in which that single chord appears. Gary Burton's video addresses this by identifying the 10 most important scales, in his view, and giving two ideas about how to select which scale applies (which notes are in the chords before and after, and which notes are in the melody).
Burton's ideas are logical and very clearly stated.
I don't know how many would agree that those 10 scales cover 99% of situations, as Burton said, but they certainly do cover a lot of ground. And, I know there are other analytical tools for choosing a scale, eg tonal center for tunes that conform to more traditional harmonic movement. But, even if ones goes beyond Burton's 10 scales and two rules, the fundamental idea of CST is unaffected.
If I'm still missing something, and somebody has the patience to try to fill in the gap, I would appreciate a specific example.
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12-02-2017 04:48 PM
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I think they probably do. He's talking about situations. Not necessarily how you respond to a given situation. 99% might be an overstatement, but probably not by much.
Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
I don't think you are. I think you've got the idea, but are not sure why it should be valuable to you. Maybe it's not. Maybe it doesn't fit with the way your mind works.If I'm still missing something, and somebody has the patience to try to fill in the gap, I would appreciate a specific example.
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That may be right. I haven't had much luck finding new sounds based on theoretical considerations about scales. I've done better hearing and seeing another player make sounds using certain notes. For example, the first time I heard a #11 against a 7th chord, it stuck in my ear. I suspect, in retrospect, that the teacher was playing a lydian dominant pattern, but it was the #11 that made the impression. CST gets you to the same place, but I can't seem to get there from trying out X scale against Y chord in the practice room. Originally Posted by Boston Joe
Where I do find CST helpful is in the situation where the leader puts a chart I've never seen on my stand - with unfamiliar harmony, counts off the tune and I have to take the first solo. At that point, I rely on knowing chord tones and having some scale choices per CST. It's not art, but it's not clams either. If I can figure out a tonal center, I can even make some informed choices among the scale options. If not, I can stick close to the chord tones and extend them by ear.
All that said, I keep coming back to Jimmy Bruno sounding terrific playing Bb Ionian over Bbmaj7. If you can't do that, maybe it isn't yet time to focus on scales Burton didn't bother to mention.
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I got the old school version from my guitar teacher in the mid 70's. It took him about 2 minutes to show me the melody, vamp and Dorian mode that can be used on 'So What'.
I've come to the conclusion that So What is the first fusion tune and there are generally 3 kinds of theory- jazz(more specifically bop), fusion and classical.
The place to start is with the oldest- classical. Learn about the history of modes, Gregorian chant, counterpoint.
What is there to say about CST in bop? It's not completely useless but close to it. If there's time to embellish and noodle on a Ab7b5 chord I think A major. If it's an Am7b5 I think Cm6.
I'm not that concerned with scales other than the major scale. If I was more into fusion where chords don't typically fly by as fast as in bop I'd explore CST more.
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CST is the opposite of... the kind of ecstatic experience the ear can reveal.
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CST is the opposite of..
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There is only that much approach notes, enclosures and embellishments you can do on chord tones and melody, swing it or not, over standard, or over blues.
There is so much of them that already in '50s-'60s of 20th century general public, as well as prominent musicians went for more vehicles of interest and "creativity". So, unless you play strictly from imagination, ear and inner ear, without any use whatsoever of theory, muscle memory and vocabulary, you will need more than chord tones and melody to keep you from drowning in the waste of overexploited musical devices.
Having them organized in, or coming to them from, modes of Major scale (and Melodic Minor and more....) is one way to extend the validity time of same old procedures. Matt Guitar Teacher posted good clip of explanation earlier in this thread.
For example, could give one way to play notes belonging to harmonic minor without sounding too old, or banal, ... or, for another example, middle eastern while still using all the half steps.
Personally, I do not use modes to organize, or play anything.
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CST gives access to the 13th note. Don't tell anyone.
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It's a sign of the times at least in the US. When the going gets tough we study. I can make varnishes and primers from scratch but enough of that jive. Originally Posted by destinytot
I just turned 60 and I decided to become a rock star. One guitar, one amp and a boat load of pedals.
Good call on that compressor by the way. I'll go with that or the Pigtronix Philosopher's Tone.
No rest for the wicked....Last edited by Stevebol; 12-02-2017 at 10:07 PM.
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Keep ringing that bell, man. Originally Posted by Stevebol
I'm not far off 60 myself. Spent the last ten years sorting myself out. Turning down lounge gigs - on the right track. Played archtop with thumb and a Fender Thin tonight. It's 00:25, and I'm between sets. CST? Some kind of time zone?
Wa da ta.
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IDK what the dabble dee is with these bammies. They cama cama leepa chai with the gigs. If you're going to ranacan you have to show up. Originally Posted by destinytot
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You're a singer who plays guitar. If you're holding down a rhythmic pulse it does put a different slant on things. Originally Posted by destinytot
I know you're a big Benson fan but he's a guitar player who sings. Same with Hendrix and Glen Campbell.
BB King and Willie Nelson are singers who play guitar.
That's just an observation. It's not a reflection of how well someone either plays guitar or sings.
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Whenever I hear that song, I always want to hear Originally Posted by destinytot
If you dally with Lydia,
She'll give you chlamidya...
But that's just me.
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I never thought of B.B.'s guitar playing as being separate from his singing. It was an extension of it. He was a singuitarist. Originally Posted by Stevebol
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Better break out these flashcards... Originally Posted by Stevebol
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Benson sang before he played guitar. He just got famous for his guitar playing first.
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A different dalliance (sans transmission of modes): Originally Posted by Boston Joe
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It's all Dothraki now, surely? Originally Posted by destinytot
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Had to google that one - haven't seen Game of Thrones (yet). Originally Posted by christianm77
I suppose the first one below is an hommage to the second one:
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Adam Neely's (clear, concise and coherent) take on the Chord Scale method: Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
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Yea take those vids and write them out.... not that clear. not even close to concise... coherent... maybe. I understand what he's saying, a few miss directions, mixing up of references.
So ... I remember years ago on this forum, introducing different approaches to playing the guitar, different approaches to understanding what your playing... basically trying to get guitarist to become better musicians... and being aware of what it is to play in jazz styles.
The entire time... being aware of where it was going. Many guitarist have changed their opinions of what those things are... many have changed their personal opinions. Generally most disagree first, then gradually start seeing possibilities etc... some just keep beating their hear against walls. But info. does help.
My point... becoming a better guitarist isn't just playing etc... Your odds of learning to play jazz guitar with most teaches, (Disclaimer, no one on this forum)... is maybe 1%. Most teachers trying to teach jazz guitar.... can't play, let alone teach jazz guitar.
Yea many just hang around for info,some for entertainment... some to pass the time...who knows, maybe the clan thing... but if you have some skills... why not try and pass it on. Usually going through the process of having to verbally explain music helps one understand... which usually leads to developing a better ear, from actually being aware.
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Nice distinction between chord-scales and their corresponding modes (whose Greek names they share).
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Hmm, I've been sitting on the sidelines and thinking more and more about all this, and so to the original question, "CST is the opposite of ... " I'm ready to take another guess ... is it salami?
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Isn't this a place of leisure? Originally Posted by Reg
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actually, no, CST is also a somewhat spicy, salt cured meat. Amazing how few people dig far enough into CST to discover that. Originally Posted by princeplanet
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