Chord scale theory is the opposite of...

[christianm77]

So 7b13nat9?

Yeah.... Most often I think just an aug triad on V.

Also, whole tone vibez

[christianm77]

Leaving aside the silly fees (and also the fact that students play for a little more than the price of a few bags of peanuts), Berklee's presence contributes positively to local life as well as to the economy.

Sure the .... 'economy'...

Look I'm going to keep going with this joke until someone acknowledges it. When they do I promise I'll stop.

[christianm77]

Also I will add that my mate Joe went for free and reckoned it was Mega. FWIW, Joe is IMO the best kept secret in UK jazz saxophone. Here he is in beast mode (solo at 5:19)

His old buddies tell me he wasn't playing like that before he went to Berklee....

[Boston Joe]

Ha. Yeah. One of my favorite movies by the way.

7#5 usually has minor as a reference most of the time. Classical borrowing from minor etc. You can sub in melodic minor or symmetrical scale "substitutions", but basic harmonic minor is usually the "reference" harmony for which they're subbing??

Hm. 7#5 usually says whole tone to me. But I suppose Harm. Minor is the more "natural" reference.

[christianm77]

I would just like to add that many musicians aren't aware of just how far mastery of this (comparatively small) body of knowledge will take you.

C major scale is:

C D E F G A B C

...which has 6 additional modes.

Change every "E" to "Eb" and you have the melodic minor scale and its modes.
Change every "G" to "G#" and you have the harmonic minor scale and its modes.
Change every "A" to "Ab" and you have the harmonic major scale and its modes.

There are 2 other 7-note scales that do not have 2 consecutive halfsteps. But they are essentially just the diminished scale with a missing note.

The diminished scale is the only way to play an 8 note scale without 2 consecutive halfsteps.

The whole-tone scale is, of course, the only way to play an evenly distributed 6-note scale. I have not worked out the math, but my sense is that just about any other 6 note scale without 2 consecutive halfsteps will be subsets of either the 7 note scales or the diminished scale (ie, the augmented scale is just a subset of the diminished scale).

Add in the chromatic scale, and really you're just dealing with 7 scales and their modes.

There are, of course, always things like synthetic scales, scales that don't repeat at the octave, Holdsworth-esque scales with more than 2 consecutive half steps. But those 7 scales will cover you for 98% of all musical situations AND a thorough understanding of them will make the more exotic stuff much easier to grasp.

Yes, this tends to be my approach to fretboard mapping with students cos it's how I learned....

For instance, I don't teach grips for the seventh chords, I teach the major seventh and get the student to derive the other ones... .Then maybe to strengthen the link I get them to derive all the chords from another seventh chord type, like minor seventh... And so on.

Same with scales.

I think this is easiest to teach with 1 octave shapes you can link together into larger positions.... The 1 octave scales are also more useful for improvisation on changes IMO.

[Hep To The Jive]

9 out 10 guys who went to Berklee and I played with I found really know their s...t. Mostly I'm talking bass players, though.

Going to Berklee was a dream of mine, that never materialized. I did go there for a Summer Guitar sessions once though, and learned how to change strings and play Chitlins Con Care.

[christianm77]

9 out 10 guys who went to Berklee and I played with I found really know their s...t. Mostly I'm talking bass players, though.

Going to Berklee was a dream of mine, that never materialized. I did go there for a Summer Guitar sessions once though, and learned how to change strings and play Chitlins Con Care.

I should bloody well hope so for those fees. :-)

But seriously, all these little digs at Berklee are just based on a mixture of good natured jest and more than a little envy for those who did get a chance to study there.

When I was young enough to go, I was too poor to afford the fees and too lacking in talent/ability to get a scholarship haha.... ;-) I know a few people who went for the summer school actually....

[destinytot]

Also I will add that my mate Joe went for free and reckoned it was Mega. FWIW, Joe is IMO the best kept secret in UK jazz saxophone. Here he is in beast mode (solo at 5:19)

His old buddies tell me he wasn't playing like that before he went to Berklee....

I can't listen at the moment, but I'll check that out. So many outstanding sax players here - graduates from other schools, or from Berklee NYC. My favourite is Jesús Santandreu.

[christianm77]

I can't listen at the moment, but I'll check that out. So many outstanding sax players here - graduates from other schools, or from Berklee NYC. My favourite is Jesús Santandreu.

Nobody fucks with the Jesus.

[destinytot]

Nobody fucks with the Jesus.

You got that right.

From summer - on a Wes blues:

[destinytot]

I can't listen at the moment, but I'll check that out.

Too advanced for my ears.

[christianm77]

I haven't a Scooby what he's up to. This BTW is how he always plays. Even on background gigs.

Unless you put a soprano sax in his mouth and then he sounds like this:
Dropbox - 10_Balkan Tune (M).m4a

(From my forthcoming album)

[rpjazzguitar]

https://www.berklee.edu/sites/defaul...02016-2017.pdf

This links to the Common Data Set for Berklee. "The Common Data Set (CDS) initiative is a collaborative effort among data providers in the higher education community and publishers as represented by the College Board, Peterson's, and U.S. News & World Report. The CDS is a set of standards and definitions of data items rather than a survey instrument or set of data represented in a database. Each of the higher education surveys conducted by the participating publishers incorporates items from the CDS as well as unique items proprietary to each publisher."

Most colleges complete this form, and you can find the results on line.

The Berklee grads I know include an absolute world class player, many excellent players and some guitarists who would struggle a bit with a standards gig.

That's why I looked up acceptable rate, which seems to be in the 30-35% area for Freshmen.

I number myself among the envious. Not just for the opportunity to study there, but envious of the talent/ability of those who succeeded.

I still think about attending a summer session, although, at my age, I have to be careful not to wander off my path.

[pingu]

Following dasein's lead.... when you take that information and then start to see how pentatonics fit and can work within different note collections... it become very guitar fretboard friendly. I generally use standard min pentatonics and the maj 6th sub of b7 versions and their inversions... which will mechanically create different targets just from the fingerings.

It will open almost all doors and help expand yore ears. Maybe even change some note choices you use. Some of those perfect choices might change... at least expand. And you'll even have some organization with using.

Sounds interesting ...
Could you give an example of that ?

[Stevebol]

Nobody fucks with the Jesus.

[Boston Joe]

Nobody fucks with the Jesus.

Dios mio, man!

[destinytot]

I haven't a Scooby what he's up to.

Like the man said, "Understanding is the booby prize."

It certainly is for me - but I'm hopeful of applying what little understanding I may actually possess with regard to creative use of shifting alternate tonal centres.

Dream big:

[Vladan]

Also I will add that my mate Joe went for free and reckoned it was Mega. FWIW, Joe is IMO the best kept secret in UK jazz saxophone. Here he is in beast mode (solo at 5:19) ...

This reminded me of something from one old thread ...

[destinytot]

No longer a secret, obviously - but he's very modest (and also my old mate):

[tomems]

I started this thread last year, and given the distinctly Lebowski slant it has taken, I would be remiss if I didn't share my new album. Enjoy Dude fans! Amazon.com: A Lotta Ins, a Lotta Outs: The Nice Marmots: MP3 Downloads

[destinytot]

"The Nice Marmots"

[christianm77]

Inevitably all threads on JGO shall devolve into an orgy of Lebowski quotes.

And good thing too.

[rpjazzguitar]

This reminded me of something from one old thread ...

I remember that show. The Wedding Band. Try to count it!

If I recall, for the finale, they jammed on a rock tune with an American band.

That was Night Music with David Sanborn. There are more videos from it on Youtube. My personal favorite is Leonard Cohen with Sonny Rollins and Was Not Was.

[Boston Joe]

"The Nice Marmots"

Excellent, excellent band name!

[Robertkoa]

CST is an intelligent Option to NOT playing by 'ear'.

In some ways it is the opposite of Playing by Ear.

The reason I Posted Rick Beatto's Video was to show a very good use of CST and the reason it was a mistitled Video.

Not saying CST is bad or useless- surely it is not basic scales and the ability to Play them in Rhythm and Time have been part of most Musical Pedagogy in Classical for hundreds of years.

But IF you are going to spend thousands of hours learning and Playing CST or Teaching it there are limitations that should be defined and understood.

CST is too vague and cumbersome to force musical lines into new Keys although it can cause a Line to conform to Harmonic Regions and Keys.

Some Theory Books say Key and Scale are synonymous - which is very misleading because Modern Harmony includes all 12 tones in any Key.

CST is great for creating lots of 'Safe Spots ' to explore on the Guitar Fingerboard in the gray area between exploring and 'hearing ' most notes IMO and can be extremely helpful in this way especially when Pentatonic Conversions ( ehharmonics ) are added and Relative Minor enharmonics of 7 Note scales

BUT again IMO when it goes into Modes of Non Diatonic scales - it could be a Rabbit Hole that is not
useful as a 'grab and go ' System .

Because you are going to be Playing many/most of these from a Chord Tone or extension anyway - it makes more sense to Catalog and Interpret and Finger and Practice them from the Viewpoint of the C.O.M. anyway.

So I am saying practice and experiment with different lines off the Chord Tones and Extensions including CST( including Plutonian Minor - the most difficult scale of all..lol ).

1)Play the Chord - THEN play from the Chord Tones and Extensions.

Do NOT play and Practice Scales in Isolation and then try to shoehorn them in during a Gig or Recording .. practice shoehorning them in using (1)
above.

Classical String Parts go over almost every type of Harmony there is and they rarely need Exotic Scales to do it.

CST should be taught with it's limitations understood and explained IMO and it should focus initially more upon Pentatonics because these are the ONLY SCALES that can give the 'Student'( including adavanced ones ) or Improviser ALL CHORD TONES .


Now here is a good demonstration IMO of using CST from an unknown 'Instructor ' who Plays really well...