Chord substitutions

[Aron The Guitar Baron]

I was wondering if there were any chord substitutions you could use to "jazz up" a song that has really basic chords. I know about chord extensions (ex. Changing a G7, C7, F chord progression to G9, C13, Fmaj7) but, if there are some basic rules to substituting chord or even common chord substitutions please share them here! Thx a lot in advance


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[Thumpalumpacus]

b5 substitution comes immediately to this jazz student's mind.

[Aron The Guitar Baron]

Hmm... What's a b5 substitution?


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[matt.guitarteacher]

Before the real books, most charts required "jazzing up". Mickey Baker's method is a pretty straightforward, simple intro into "jazzing up" changes. less than 10 bucks last time I looked.

[Aron The Guitar Baron]

Do you mean a book like this http://www.walmart.com/ip/4124459?wm...&wl13=&veh=sem


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[matt.guitarteacher]

Do you mean a book like this Mickey Baker's Complete Course in Jazz Guitar: Book 1 - Walmart.com


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holy crap! 5 bucks?

Yeah. That's it...

[jtr]

Hmm... What's a b5 substitution?

Also known as a "tritone sub". You replace a dominant 7 chord with a dominant 7 a tritone away. For instance, instead of Dm G7 | C, you would play Dm Db7 | C. This sets up a lot of chromatic movement down to the target chord. You can also add extensions like the 9 or 13.

Another common idea is to use a chord a diatonic third up or down from the "written" chord. In the key of C, Am or Em are common subs for Cmaj, Fmaj is a common sub for Dm, and Bmb5 is a common sub for G7.

One more basic sub to play with is to use a diminished chord a half step above the root of a dominant 7; this would be a G#o chord instead of G7. And since there are only three different diminished chords, you can also use Bo, Do, or Fo, which are .



So there's a couple of ideas to get you started. Mickey Baker shows you most of those ideas in action, plus some ideas for inserting passing chords. Definitely worth a few bucks.

[Aron The Guitar Baron]

Also known as a "tritone sub". You replace a dominant 7 chord with a dominant 7 a tritone away. For instance, instead of Dm G7 | C, you would play Dm Db7 | C. This sets up a lot of chromatic movement down to the target chord. You can also add extensions like the 9 or 13.

Another common idea is to use a chord a diatonic third up or down from the "written" chord. In the key of C, Am or Em are common subs for Cmaj, Fmaj is a common sub for Dm, and Bmb5 is a common sub for G7.

One more basic sub to play with is to use a diminished chord a half step above the root of a dominant 7; this would be a G#o chord instead of G7. And since there are only three different diminished chords, you can also use Bo, Do, or Fo, which are .



So there's a couple of ideas to get you started. Mickey Baker shows you most of those ideas in action, plus some ideas for inserting passing chords. Definitely worth a few bucks.

Thanks a lot! Will definitely try to get the book!


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[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

My beef with the Mickey Baker books is: no theory explanations. You're shown examples and have to extract what you can out of them.

[matt.guitarteacher]

My beef with the Mickey Baker books is: no theory explanations. You're shown examples and have to extract what you can out of them.

Absolutely. But we didn't need no stinkin' explanations , back when we were walking uphill in the snow both ways to learn some beginner jazz. ;-)

[jasaco]

Here's another easy tip: If you see a dom7 chord, stick it's relative 2m in front of it. For example, if you're in the key of C and you're heading for a G7 (or G9, G13, etc.), put a Dm7 in front of it. You could think of it as the 2m in the key of C, or think of it as the m7 chord based on the 5 of the G7 chord. Probably the former concept is better.

[joe2758]

I'm going to be making some videos going through some of MB's book and explaining what I read between the lines in terms of what is being left unsaid

[matt.guitarteacher]

Mickey Baker used to be discussed pretty frequently, and there are websites with breakdowns and analysis as well, if you can find them. Our very own Rob McKillop has a series of videos , Very well done, as well.

[matt.guitarteacher]

A lot of discussion as well:

https://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/searc...earchid=281486

(Actually, not sure if that link works.) Click "advanced search" . Search "Mickey Baker" and select "thread titles only" in place of "entire threads".

[joe2758]

guess i'll be beating a dead horse! at least the horse won't mind

[matt.guitarteacher]

guess i'll be beating a dead horse! at least the horse won't mind

Didn't mean that at all. The horse is actually dead, after all. Fresh, new, live horses are nice every once in a while. Rock on. :-)

[Aron The Guitar Baron]

I'm going to be making some videos going through some of MB's book and explaining what I read between the lines in terms of what is being left unsaid

Could you post the link to your videos? I'd really like to see them!


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[christianm77]

I think subs are best understood by example.

General rules
- subs should support the melody is the melody is being played. So don't have an Eb in a chord when there's an E in the melody, etc.
- keep it reasonably simple when someone else is soloing
- when it's your solo, do what you like

Here are some examples of a jazz blues. See what you notice.

3 chords
C | F7 | C | % |
F7 | % | C | % |
G7 | % | C | G7 |
Notice that in this early version of the 12 bar we don't have an F7 in bar 10

More movement
C | F7 | C | C7 |
F7 | Fm6 | C | % |
G7 | % | E7 A7 | D7 G7 |

Notice we have a bit more movement with the C7 pushing us towards F7. The Fm6 is a classic way of getting back to C. If the melody note was an A we might want to use a F#o7 instead.

We have a turnaround in bars 11 and 12 based on backcycling dominants. Usually the melody has stopped by this point of the tune, so we can do what we like.

Classic jazz Blues
C6 C7/E | F7 F#o7 | C6/G | Gm7 C7 |
F6 | F#o7 | C6 | A7b9 |
Dm7 | G7 | Em7 A7b9 | Dm7 G7 |

I've packed a lot of movement into bars 1 and 2, but this is the sort of classic bassline you can hear from people like Ray Brown.
We add in a Gm7 to make a ii-V-I into F in bars 4-5.
We use the F#o7 to get back to C.
G7 in bar 9 becomes a ii-V, and we set it up with the secondary dominant A7b9 at bar 8
I've put a smoother, less traddy sounding turnaround at bars 11-12

Parker blues
C6 | Bm7b5 E7 | Am7 D7 | Gm7 C7 |
F7 | Fm7 Bb7 | Em7 A7| Ebm Ab7
Dm7 | G7 | C Eb7 | Abmaj7 G7 |

Hoo boy
- We move to the relative minor, Am using a ii-V in bar 2, and keep going down in ii-V's until we get to the IV, F major.
- Or Fm chord in bar 6 is expanded into a ii-V, and we then keep going in chromatically descending ii-V's until we get to Dm7

This probably wouldn't fit a standard blues melody BTW.

I've also swapped out bars 11-12 with a Tadd Dameron turnaround, just because.

There are loads more possibilities and examples of blues subs, but this should keep you busy. I can post examples of non blues tunes if you like.

[joe2758]

I think subs are best understood by example.

General rules
- subs should support the melody is the melody is being played. So don't have an Eb in a chord when there's an E in the melody, etc.
- keep it reasonably simple when someone else is soloing
- when it's your solo, do what you like

Here are some examples of a jazz blues. See what you notice.

3 chords
C | F7 | C | % |
F7 | % | C | % |
G7 | % | C | G7 |
Notice that in this early version of the 12 bar we don't have an F7 in bar 10

More movement
C | F7 | C | C7 |
F7 | Fm6 | C | % |
G7 | % | E7 A7 | D7 G7 |

Notice we have a bit more movement with the C7 pushing us towards F7. The Fm6 is a classic way of getting back to C. If the melody note was an A we might want to use a F#o7 instead.

We have a turnaround in bars 11 and 12 based on backcycling dominants. Usually the melody has stopped by this point of the tune, so we can do what we like.

Classic jazz Blues
C6 C7/E | F7 F#o7 | C6/G | Gm7 C7 |
F6 | F#o7 | C6 | A7b9 |
Dm7 | G7 | Em7 A7b9 | Dm7 G7 |

I've packed a lot of movement into bars 1 and 2, but this is the sort of classic bassline you can hear from people like Ray Brown.
We add in a Gm7 to make a ii-V-I into F in bars 4-5.
We use the F#o7 to get back to C.
G7 in bar 9 becomes a ii-V, and we set it up with the secondary dominant A7b9 at bar 8
I've put a smoother, less traddy sounding turnaround at bars 11-12

Parker blues
C6 | Bm7b5 E7 | Am7 D7 | Gm7 C7 |
F7 | Fm7 Bb7 | Em7 A7| Ebm Ab7
Dm7 | G7 | C Eb7 | Abmaj7 G7 |

Hoo boy
- We move to the relative minor, Am using a ii-V in bar 2, and keep going down in ii-V's until we get to the IV, F major.
- Or Fm chord in bar 6 is expanded into a ii-V, and we then keep going in chromatically descending ii-V's until we get to Dm7

This probably wouldn't fit a standard blues melody BTW.

I've also swapped out bars 11-12 with a Tadd Dameron turnaround, just because.

There are loads more possibilities and examples of blues subs, but this should keep you busy. I can post examples of non blues tunes if you like.

now that's a lesson on subs. I would take him up on his offer to do more tunes if I were you, kids

[nowhere man]

I have a tendency to acquire instructional books that I abandon after the first few lessons. A while back I decided I wanted to complete a few of them. Now I have undertaken the 1st Mickey Baker book and am up to lesson 45, with seven more to go.

Some observations...

You will need to be very comfortable reading traditionally scaled music in the treble clef.

You will need a good understanding of the fretboard and how to transpose.

You will have to apply theory to the examples.

You will have to decide just how closely you want to follow his instructions. (You could make a full-time job out of doing the assignments.)

There's a lot of good advice in the book, but getting at it is probably more difficult than it needs to be. I found the youtube.com lessons based on the book very helpful. I would welcome any and all attempts to make the subject matter more accessible.

Good luck!

[matt.guitarteacher]

If you're looking for more out of the Mickey Baker book: http://www.advancedguitarstudygroup....er/Lessons.htm

[Steeyuv]

If you've got four beats of a 7th chord and want to break it up a bit, play the half-diminished of the third of the original chord - eg D7 F#-7b5. In that context, the half-dim chord actually sounds like D9.

[Robertkoa]

Really interesting Christian ...

I like to hear also your explanations and thoughts and ideas for the Substitutions in the Examples...because they can be used in non Blues or 'almost Blues' etc. and for Composition- including the practical idea that some of the more inventive Substitutions might not ' fit ' a ' standard' Blues Melody- but of course the big plus is it might inspire an original' Head' or new Tune etc.






And I like seeing the evolution from Basic to the more advanced ideas... including the descending ii V 's ...it seems very easy to ' get' your explanations.

I used to love the Saturday Night Theme at the show's end...did not realize it was often Michael Brecker blowing amazing Gospel/ R&B / Jazz/ Blues over that Theme but loved it and used to crank it up...

Seems like that Tune has a III7 Chord which sometimes is just V of Vi but sometimes just goes to the IV Chord - so cool- when did that start showing up ?

[christianm77]

Really interesting Christian ...

I like to hear also your explanations and thoughts and ideas for the Substitutions in the Examples...because they can be used in non Blues or 'almost Blues' etc. and for Composition- including the practical idea that some of the more inventive Substitutions might not ' fit ' a ' standard' Blues Melody- but of course the big plus is it might inspire an original' Head' or new Tune etc.






And I like seeing the evolution from Basic to the more advanced ideas... including the descending ii V 's ...it seems very easy to ' get' your explanations.

I used to love the Saturday Night Theme at the show's end...did not realize it was often Michael Brecker blowing amazing Gospel/ R&B / Jazz/ Blues over that Theme but loved it and used to crank it up...

Seems like that Tune has a III7 Chord which sometimes is just V of Vi but sometimes just goes to the IV Chord - so cool- when did that start showing up ?

Probably very early days - here are some examples of the chord from pre war jazz:

Here's Louis version - just because.

Fats very frequently use a III7 chord to get into IV.

So very common by the 30's a least. Probably early, and probably loads of examples from classical/romantic era harmony.

Also the use of V7 #Vo7 VIm always has a Gospel tinge to it to my ears (comes from Hymns etc I guess) - listen to the Trombone line in Sunny Side. This was a common way to play into the minor before the minor ii V I became the default way. It's still refelcted in the bebop approach to minor ii-V-I's taught by Barry Harris and David Baker.

Also in the early days, there wasn't a huge expanse of clear water between jazz, blues and gospel.

[christianm77]

Gospelly blues changes, the move to relative minor at 1:45:

So:

C | % | / / E7 / | Am | C7 |
F7 | % | C | A7 |
D7 | G7 | C | G7 |

(ish)