-
Why are there more books on scales and modes than on timing and feel?
don't we need just one reference book on scales and modes?
-
09-10-2014 12:35 PM
-
It's just easier. Even I could publish a reference book of scales and modes with myriad diagrams and such. The good ones probably have notated examples, but there are a ton of the more "encyclopedic" variety.
I would think that timing and feel is a little more difficult to put down on paper.
-
And don't forget books with "10,000 chords" (or some vast number) which are just pictures of a few dozen or so chords in all twelve keys....
I'm with Matt---they're easier to make.
-
How do you teach timing and feel those are things learned from lots of listening and playing. Also getting your ass handed to you at hardcore Jam sessions.
There was this old Blues player at a clinic who gave an bright eyed kid a lesson in feel once. The kid was going pentatonic crazy and blasting a zillion notes. The Blue cat told him you ain't got no feel just a bunch of notes. The Blues cat stood next to the kid and put his foot on top of the kids foot. Then told the kid raise his heel to keep time and had the kid start playing. Then the Blues guy start putting his weight the kids foot and the smile was disappearing from the kids face, so the Bluesman leaned even harder. Kid almost in tears the Blues guy stops the kids. The say that is what your solo is suppose to tell me what that felt like.
This happened to an old friend of mine he picked up the gig playing for Little Anthony who was the opening act for the Bob Marley tour. Reggie McBride was running Lil Anthhony's band and Reggie's was part of the L.A. reggae scene back then. Lil Anthony since opening for Marley wanted to do some of his tunes in a reggae feel. My friend was a good feel player, but never played reggae before and was struggling in rehearsals. So Reggie said okay I'll teach you, my friend had long hair then so Reggie grabbed the some of his hair and told him strum when I pull your hair. My friend learned to play reggae and by end of the tour hearing and hanging with Marley's band every night became an excellent reggae player him self.
So how do you teach lessons like that in a book, some things just have to be experienced.
-
I hear kids (try to) play blues solos .. they tell me they have "tabs" of a BB King solo but it dose not sound the same..and they have no idea why..
-
In my opinion, this is one spot where the new world of interactive apps crushes book learning.
I have no affiliation with this app, but it is fantastic for learning rhythm. Highly recommend for people with iOS devices.
Rhythm Sight Reading Trainer by Rolfs Apps
https://appsto.re/us/EDXNx.i
Also, I LOVE this old article about the importance of guitarists learning rhythm:
http://www.premierguitar.com/article..._in_the_PocketLast edited by DocJay; 12-05-2014 at 08:07 PM. Reason: spelling
-
Very hard to teach to be honest, and feel is very personal, which makes it even more difficult to teach.
FWIW, perhaps the best way is to teach it is teaching to read music. Once you really know where the notes are suppose to fall, you can begin to play with "adjusting" them.
-
Writing about time and feel is like twerking about baking. Now, working and showing somebody one-on-one...
Apologies to Frank Zappa.
-
Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
Reminds me of an old improv teacher I had in school. Some student was trying to theorize about something. I'll clean up what the teacher said..... You can read all you books you want on screwing, but you don't know what it feels like until you do it for the first time, now go practice!!!Last edited by docbop; 12-06-2014 at 03:29 AM. Reason: typo
-
Charlie Hunter is one of my favorite musicians. I've seen him perform about 5 times. He's all about the groove. Originally Posted by DocJay
-
Because more students will buy them. Beginners listen to "something awesome" they think "What are those notes?!! How does he DO that?" and they go out and buy a book that tells them notes to play. Who asks "Cool! Did you hear the rhythmic groupings? I have GOT to learn to play that rhythm!" Why are there more books on other people's solos than how to make your own? People want the notes. Originally Posted by bobsguitars09
People assume that if you get the notes, you'll get the phrasing. Wrong. But by the time many realize that, they're already overplaying machine gun scale notes and more interested in playing more and faster than using space and taste. Or that's the way it goes a lot of the time.
David
-
While the statement in the OP is true, there is one fantastic book which addresses all the issues of feel, groove, taste etc.:
The Music Lesson
by bassist Victor Wooten
-
Yes many books, web pages, and articles about scales...
I recently had a serious exploration of these, and unless I missed to find what I was looking for my conclusion has been
- Yes many, too many
- Most are just enumerating scales
- Very few, if any, give a clear, relatively concise and complete (the keyword in this sentence) overview of what learning and practicing scales is about and why one should seriously invest into this.
. why it is important to do it
. what you gain from doing it
. how you should be doing it
I agree that writing such a complete overview is far from being simple and it's far more work than just simply enumerating scales. Probably of the same complexity as trying to explain what feel, groove, .. are about.
-
Originally Posted by JazzinNY
Cool. I will check this out!
Does anyone know any other good rhythm books or videos? Specifically, I'm looking for something that will give me loads of different types of rhythm/groove exercises in different musical styles.
-
Forget about looking for a book... (for the above reasons)
Book learning is about information. Rhythm is not about information, it's a process over time. You can't express time (the infinite subtleties of temporal division represented by rhythm) in a book.
That's why you're likely to get much better answers from videos or DVDs.
But also, you should be listening to music and trying to copy it. That's really the best way to learn. Using teaching material of any kind is a kind of side-step, a diversion off the main route that you hope will give you a shortcut. It won't. You might find some good tips, but you'll only really learn by listening and copying. As Hal Galper says in one of his youtube masterclasses, it essentially comes down to "make it sound like this".
The idea is that all of us - non-musicians too - understand music (and rhythm) perfectly well when we hear it. We can hear and feel the logic to it. Our problem as musicians is simply a technical one, of controlling our instrument. We know how it should sound (a book can't tell you that). We just have to practice playing until it sounds right. There's no shortcut, it just steadily gets better and better.
Still, I would recommend videos, etc, if I knew of any. I never used such things, and learned the old-fashioned way. (And even though books are, by definition, a poor resource, I might make an exception for Wooten's, judging from the lessons of his I've seen on youtube. I've seen few people explain rhythm and groove better.)
-
Cool. Yeah, I was thinking more "book & cd" than just written word, but I hear what you are saying.
-
Of course one has to listen to music, daily.
As for playing:
William Leavitt's books teach rhythms in different styles, including some Latin feels for rhythm guitar. But you should know that different styles have different depths of study, and hence specialist studies and books.
For soloing, if you want to work on jazz phrasing and feel with books, I would check out Lennie Niehaus' Jazz Conception for Saxophone with play along CD. (there are two basic books, one intermediate book, and one advanced book. you probably don't need all four.
).
Work hard on this - especially playing along with the CD - and it should help tremendously.Last edited by fumblefingers; 12-07-2014 at 01:09 PM.
-
Thanks for the tip! I was unfamiliar with this material. I'll give it a try. Originally Posted by fumblefingers
For soloing, if you want to work on jazz phrasing and feel with books, I would check out Lennie Niehaus' Jazz Conception for Saxophone with play along CD. (there are two basic books, one intermediate book, and one advanced book. you probably don't need all four.).
Work hard on this - especially playing along with the CD - and it should help tremendously.
-
you bet. it helps you with accents and feel. helps make sure you don't clip off your notes, play too staccato, play too straight etc. if one listens to a lot of jazz, it'll make sense right away.
i'd seen the title for years but didn't have any idea what it was or why i should check it out, being a guitarist. then a UNT masters grad recommended it, i bought the first volume, and learned a few things...
-
"A rhythmic vocabulary" helped me a lot. By Allan Dworsky and Betsy Sansby. I think a lot of beginners and even advanced players take it too lightly on rhythm training. A very advanced drummer recommended me doing "table of time" exercises (going from 1 hit pr beat up to about 9). I presented this stuff to a lesser trained drummer and he was like "this is really easy to practice". So he thought he could wing it although he really couldn't.
Maybe it's harder to evaluate rhythmic development compared to learned shapes and chords where it is easy to see the progress -
"before I could play me three chords, now I can play me five chords!"
-
Mick Goodrick had a book out called 'Factorial Rhythm,' which is out of print now. A mind-bending, mathematical, exhaustive approach to rhythms.
To improve your time feel, the book you're looking for is called 'Metronome,' by an obscure author named Seiko.
-
Lol. I might give that a try if this Talent Boost pedal I got doesn't pan out. ;-) Originally Posted by logictweek
In all seriousness though, I came across a pretty cool app called Drum School that is designed for drummers. It basically shows how rhythms for loads of different genres are constructed. Pretty neat little overview.
-
Im currently trying to develop my time. Its extremely hard to find the help online.
I like physics, so I think it would be cool to see a sine wave app that described where certain players play around the beat. This could be done slowed down so players could mimic.
I think the chord books and "the 5 essential scales every guitarist needs to know", are good for the player who just recently turned to jazz, but I think the guys on tge lower end of the intermediate level like me, should spend their time studying advanced harmony concepts and reading transcriptions.
-
Im currently trying to develop my time. Its extremely hard to find the help online.
I like physics, so I think it would be cool to see a sine wave app that described where certain players play around the beat. This could be done slowed down so players could mimic.
I think the chord books and "the 5 essential scales every guitarist needs to know", are good for the player who just recently turned to jazz, but I think the guys on tge lower end of the intermediate level like me, should spend their time studying advanced harmony concepts and reading transcriptions.
-
What about this....Rhythm Training Masterclass (1) - Ari Hoenig - My Music Masterclass
Ari Hoenig offers 3 lessons on rhythm on My Music Masterclass website.
These lessons are for all musicians. Not taught from behind the drum kit but designed to be clapped/tapped.
Topics include syncopation, beat displacement, metric modulation ....check out the samples for free.
This site really is good value....they deserve much more recognition.
Lessons may be streamed for 5 days for a very modest cost, or downloaded,still very reasonable pricing.
Also the production values are extremely high.
I could go on......and....I have no affiliation to My Music Masterclass other than being one satisfied customer.
Also, try this pair of free lessons from guitarist Sean Driscoll.....[he's a guitar player, if that matters]
....
One more to check out....this is really a challenge.....
Reply With Quote
Thomastik Jazz BeBop 12 set - $10.
Today, 06:35 AM in For Sale