Question about scale notation...

**Reg** · 05-27-2014, 11:37 AM

Hey Phil... yes I have played cello for most of my live, Sill play fretless bass at gigs... intonation can be a problem. Generally one note doesn't become a problem... except when we have the time to stare at the notation etc.. And generally at jazz gigs the problem is when all the intonation is out... from different problem.

I do remember back in the 70's being in a studio on east coast and conducting string section arrangements for some BS record and having to explain to the strings on some constant structure approach voicings to hear notes in relation to the target. The 1/2 step thing...

The parker line could be B- to Bb- ....and just B7 to C7, G7alt Chord patterns with in the phrase. Very rarely are the changes notated actually all that is going on harmonically.

Scriabin was one of my favorite composers, pianist as a young lad... now I enjoy the stories. He probable could have been a cool jazz musician... after he got his rhythm and Blue note thing together.

**Phil in London** · 05-27-2014, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by Reg

Scriabin was one of my favorite composers, pianist as a young lad... now I enjoy the stories. He probable could have been a cool jazz musician... after he got his rhythm and Blue note thing together.

Same here, one of my youth heros... hehe...

regarding rhythm and blue notes, I agree, its something the Jugendstil composers would have needed to work on...

But I am sure you do know that funk, blues, and indeed hard rock, were invented in 1912 in Russia?

Just kidding... but: it surely is amazing...

**Jonah** · 05-27-2014, 01:39 PM

Yeh I noticed jazzy sound in Scriabin before I also remember bossa texture in one of his sonatas but I can't remember the number now)
But Scriabin takes a very special place - he is like out of tradition...

As per the ideas.. There are instrumental quality in almost every instrumental music.
But I speak about it as an essential part of music - the comopsers you mentioned were under direct influence of Chopin (young Scriabin was practically an imitator of Chopin), they were pianists and they composed very pianistic music, piano texture played very important role in their music.
Chopin is still exceptional because of the reasons I mentioned before: he wrote almost exclusively for piano, and he preferred tonally inside closed forms. Liszt, Scriabin, Rakhmaninov were also very pianistic (I think also Prokoviev though in a different way - anti-pianistic piano composer), but they all worked also with complex forms and with other genres, though texture of pino music meant much for the their pieces there were many other important pcriteria (especially with Scriabin and Rakhmaninov) - and with Chopin it was essential..

If we take piano music of Beethoven, Mozart, Haydn, Schumann (yes, he is in this list), Mendelssohn, Brahms, Schubert we will also see piano texture but it will not be so important as with composers mentioned before... yes for the later period - like Schumann, Brahms and Mendelssohn a little bit more, for classical period less but not as crucial as in Chopin's music... even in Kreisleriana.

And if go for non-piano music, all the chamber, symphonic, opera repertoire it will be huge and we will hardly find the samples like we have here with these few composers.

Very long sorry.. but I just had to explain what I meant.

**Phil in London** · 05-27-2014, 06:58 PM

Jonah, understood, and I guess you are right, its rather a pianistic thing of the late 19th century.

**Reg** · 05-28-2014, 10:30 AM

Yea, Mis Wang is an incredible pianist... but we're talking completely different musical concepts... Yea the only jazz thing I noticed about Scriabin was his compositional use of Melodic Min. almost modal in a jazz style...last works especially...op72, 74. Would have been cool to have listened to his playing... actual improve using his compositional approaches. What was this thread about?

**Phil in London** · 05-28-2014, 06:47 PM

I guess we said what we had to say about notation, and so... ;-)

Btw - agree to difference in concepts. Its a different language, simple as that, my reference to Prokofiev was just kidding. The guys who say that all jazz has been covered by European art music before have a very limited understanding of what music means and what it is built of.

**Phil in London** · 05-28-2014, 06:51 PM

btw 2 - there are some recordings of AS, it appears that he had an encounter with a piano role at a late point in his life, and the results were later recovered and reconstructed.

Meet the ghost of Skriabin in this quite ecstatic performance:

**Reg** · 05-29-2014, 12:08 AM

Very nice...thanks

**johnny67** · 05-29-2014, 03:01 AM

I was taught music theory by a pianist and he says that you really shouldn't have F and f# in the same scale.

**Reg** · 05-30-2014, 09:39 AM

How do you spell "C" blues scale... Bb bebop maj, G bebop dom. a few symmetrical scales... sorry not trying to be smart ass... I'm guessing that's some type of pianist joke...

**targuit** · 05-30-2014, 10:31 AM

I'm thinking the pianist meant the f# should be thought of as a b5th.

**Jonah** · 05-30-2014, 03:07 PM

How do you spell "C" blues scale... Bb bebop maj, G bebop dom. a few symmetrical scales... sorry not trying to be smart ass... I'm guessing that's some type of pianist joke...

Or how do we spell chromatic scale?))))

I'm thinking the pianist meant the f# should be thought of as a b5th

i am sure the pianist meant just major/minor scales...

and johnny67 just did not mention it.