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Hoping y'all can give me some insight regarding the use of clusters in jazz. I know they're used a lot in modern composed (classical) music as a means of organizing material based on texture/density in absence of a tonal center. I'm wondering how and why they found their way into tonal jazz. I guess Bill Evans was the catalyst? Lastly, are there any guitarists who are especially known for their use of these piano-centric voicings (besides Derek Bailey, who used them more or less exclusively)?
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09-06-2013 11:45 AM
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I don't really know what you are asking, but look at John Stowell, Tom Lippincott, Steve Herberman, Johnny Smith, Bill Frisell, Lage Lund, Steve Masakowski and maybe you can figure out what you want by listening to them.
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I love clusters, but I dig film scores and they use them a lot. They also show how smart our ear and subconscious brain are in how they recognize instantly Cool the arranger/musician is using a cluster. Our ears and subconscious are very fast to recognize clusters, displacing notes, and other musical tools to even a casual listener. I find it odd in studying guitar over the years I never heard anyone talk about "what the ear expects" or "the ear understands X so it works", but in studying bass those were things talked about.
To me clusters are just another harmonic tool to create a mood.
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Do close vocings (as on a piano) count? It's a challenge to do it on a guitar in standard tuning.
I know I've mentioned this too many times, but consider a "Nashville tuning" which is like 1/2 a 12 string tuning: EADGBE, but with EAD an octave higher than normal. Standard grips like x1223x are the phrygian chord (pitched low to high) A-Bb-D-E.
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Maybe were talking two different things. What I call a cluster is harmonizing a line with a fixed set of intervals. Its atonal because you don't adjust the intervals for the key the interval distance remains fixed. That's what I was taught harmonizing with a cluster is????
Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
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Interesting...I've never seen the word cluster used to mean something that specific.
By your definition docbop, that's actually much easier to do on guitar than on piano...and it can be a very cool sound. I'm thinking of the parallel movement Herbie Hancock would do with chords as a type of this...
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But see? This is why I don't know what the OP was asking about really. If it's what Docbop says, yeah, then we can just move close voicings up and down the board......otherwise....gotta pay attention to the harmony. Is this the distinction?
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If one mentions 'Bill Evans' and 'clusters' in the same sentence generally they're referring to rootless voicing (chord) clusters in closed position, i.e., BCE to denote an A-9 voicing, FABE to denote a G13 and so on.
Think closed position - Or CLUSTER, a tightly grouped (closed position) group of 3 or more notes performing a chord. Bill Evans is largely credited with creating these rootless cluster voicing's that generally always include an EXTENSION(S), i.e., BCE (9th -3rd 5th) voicing of an A-9, or FABE (7th 9th 3rd 13) voicing of a G13.
I say "largely credited" because BE in the late mid 50's, among other players, began using these clusters to denote rootless jazz voicings, containing extensions.
However, during my jazz keyboard travels I've come across old out of print compositions of Duke Ellington, which used clusters, that were created long before Bill Evans was a name known to jazz.
It's reported that one of Bill Evans many gifts was his capacity to sight read and perform compositions on the fly, and as a result became a fan of the works of Ravel and Debussy. Personally, I've found clusters used in several RAVEL pieces. Maurice Ravel (1875-1937) interspersed "jazz" voicings in some of his work?!
Sorry for the piano ramble...but that's what I know of clusters...I use 'em often...just not on the guitar. Next time you walk by a REAL piano, no, the electronic keyboard won't provide the same level of harmonic overtones - Play a BCE and you'll hear the significance of a tightly grouped cluster voicing...that 1/2 step clashing of two neighboring notes is powerful stuff at the piano....guitar...Mmmmm, no.
Last edited by 2bornot2bop; 09-06-2013 at 01:43 PM.
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In the voicing of traditional 4 note chords there evolved a drop this or that terminology.
Within the 6 four part voicing spreads the tightest arrangement is close or 4 way close. 1357 3571 5713 7135
Cluster voicings are even more squeezed together integrating one ore more seconds.
They can be fully diatonic or varying degrees of chromatic.
BCDE Cma9
Of course these can be inverted as well which undoes some or all of the cluster effect.
Mick Goodrick and Tim Miller used the term "open cluster" which on some level is no cluster at all.
BCDE CDEB DEBC EBCD
CEBD DBCE ECDB BDEC
Studying arranging with Don Sebesky as best I remember, he referred to voicings as cluster, close, semi open and open.
Of course he was referring to a multiple instrument context often more than 4 voices.
Go to a piano and play a full octave of a scale. Play a simple melody in this fashion. Very tonal.
Bet you can't play this on guitar......
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Sorry, should have been more clear: the clusters I was referring to are chords comprised of close intervals that are not displaced by octaves, as in the chromatic cluster C-C#-D or the diatonic cluster C-D-E. This is also called secundal harmony/voicing, I believe. I'd never heard of the cluster concept docbop mentioned, so I guess I'm glad my OP was ambiguous! Originally Posted by jseaberry
They definitely count, they're obviously easier on piano, and that's where these voicings were first developed by Henry Cowell and others; translating them to guitar is definitely the challenge. Hope this clarifies my muddled OP somewhat. Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
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I might call that a "parallel" cluster. Originally Posted by docbop
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This just popped into my head. Got Cluster?
It's got a beat and you can dance to it.Last edited by BigDaddyLoveHandles; 09-06-2013 at 03:41 PM.
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Two hand chord clusters for guitar:
http://twohandguitarvoicings.wordpre...-and-clusters/
Last edited by 2bornot2bop; 09-06-2013 at 02:21 PM.
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Hey Alex you might want to check out Vic Juris' book on chords and also Randy Sandke's book "Harmony for a New Millenium" Metatonal Music, and of course Ted Greene's book Modern Chord Progressions. Also you might like Wayne Krantz and Ben Monder's work.
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The Don Sebesky of Creed Taylor's CTI, Verve, and A-M records? The Don Sebesky who orchestrated the backgrounds to so many Wes Montgomery LP's? Originally Posted by bako
What a lucky dog you were!
Last edited by 2bornot2bop; 09-06-2013 at 03:18 PM.
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No, that's parallelism, or planing. Originally Posted by docbop
Clusters are collections of very close-voiced chords - often stacks of 2nds - in an atonal context (not easy on a guitar in standard tuning!).
Taking a chord shape and moving the same shape up and down to follow a melody line - harmonising each note with the same chord regardless of key - is parallelism. Debussy and Ravel used it, which is probably what inspired Bill Evans.
Parallel harmony - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Tone clusters:
Tone cluster - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Cool, I will make note to call it Parallel Harmony. Originally Posted by JonR
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Does parallel harmony imply the close voicing of a cluster? You could have parallel fourths like in Hindemith.
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Also, I suppose it implies the use of modes of limited transposition? For example, if we construct a chord in whole-step intervals and move this shape in whole steps, we're using the whole tone scale. It seems that any parallel movement would contain some transposing mode, which Messiaen wrote about, following Debussy and Ravel.
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Originally Posted by eddy b.
I was going to suggest the same Vic Juris book.
Piano players have been using clusters for a while already, in jazz. Although they've been using more chord-like clusters (fourths, for example), I like to see those kinds of chords and voicings as clusters as well, although they're technically not, they are used the same way. The Vic Juris book explains the use of intervallic chords, which are very similar to clusters as they are not composed by tertiary harmony and the voicings are not necessarily composed of a quality, rather it uses the entire mode as a base to draw notes from. Basically, in an intervallic chord or a cluster, you have notes diatonic to the mode and they run diatonically. So the quality of the interval might change, but the interval will still be the same.
If you were running a three note cluster through any of the C Major modes, You would have something like C D E, two major 2nds. If you move it up a step, you would have D E F, a major second and then a minor second. And it goes on through the whole mode.
In terms of application, you could use it over any tune really. It's a bit harder with a bop tune where the harmonic rhythm is much faster, and the types of reharmonizations used really change the mode in most moments, such as changing a ii chord into a V/V chord completely changes the quality of the chord. However, it is highly efficient in modal tunes like Impressions, and it is also very good to use on more modern tunes (think Chick Corea stuff).
Another great book that goes into modal comping and gets more in detail with clusters is the Mick Goodrick/Tim Miller book on creative chords (forgot the name).
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As an example, let's not forget any 2 notes can be used as a "cluster." Keith Jarrett uses "tertiary" clusters creating inner movement, very effectively, even grabbing the E above the 9th in the C7sus chord below as heard on the following passage between 0:51-1:02:
BbMaj6/9 Bhalf-dim7 C7sus C13 l F13sus F13b9 l BbMaj9- chords played from the bottom up:
BbGCFAD BAD CFBbDE CEBbDG FBbDEbGC FADEbGb BACDF
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