m7b5 and Locrian Nat. 2

[jster]

Thanks Jens! I will delve into it as soon as I get back from la spiaggia at the end of the month!

[JensL]

Ok. have a nice trip!

Jens

[bako]

Jens gave some good examples how the same chord chart can be interpreted in many ways.

Sometimes additional modes are introduced in a song by thinking harmonic movements beyond the chord chart.
This was an attempt to introduce as many related (in my mind anyway) harmonic areas as possible into the song form by changing chord every half measure. Like many studies of this sort I would say the result is gross overkill, more an academic exercise than a musical event. Just because you can doesn't always mean you should.
I hesitated to share it, just consider it part of my growing process.
Yet there are musicians who possess the skill to weave together different harmonies so naturally that one is scarcely aware of all the nuance at play. This is what I am aiming for.........meanwhile


Blue Bossa (chord study)


------Cm6--------------G7b9-------- | -----Cm7---------------C7#9
X C X A Eb G --- X B X Ab D F --- | Bb X G C Eb X --- G X E Bb D# X |


------Fm7--------------FmMa9--- | ---Dbma7/6 -------------Eb9
X C F X Eb Ab --- X X E Ab C G | X Db X Bb C F --- Bb X G Db F X |


----Dm7b5-------------Dadd#9--| --Dbma7#11 --------G7b9b13
X D Ab C F Bb --- X X F# A D F | X Db X C F G --- X B F Ab Eb X |


-----CmMa9 ----------CmMa7/6 | ---- B7#9 -----------------Bb7b9
X C Eb B D X --- G X Eb A B X | F# X D# A D X --- F X D Ab Cb X |


------Ebm11 -------------Bb7+#9 ---- | -----EbdimMa7 -----------Ab7+#11
X X Gb Db F Ab --- X D Ab C# F# X- | X Eb Gb Bbb F X --- Ab D Gb C E X |


-----DbMa9----------DbMa7#11 -| ---DbMa9 ------------Eb+add#9
X Db F C Eb X --- Ab X F G C X | X Db F C Eb X --- X Eb G B F# X |


----Dm9b5 -------------G7b9 -- |--DmMa11b5 -----------DbMa9 --- |
X D Ab C E X --- X F Ab B G X | X F Ab E G X --- X X Ab Db Eb C |


---CmMa9 -----------------------| -------DdimMa7 ------------G7+b9
X Eb X D G B -------------------|---X D Ab C# F X ------X X F B Eb Ab ||

[Toat]

I detest prescriptive theory. The whole concept of an avoid note is crap. Play what sounds good to your ears. You shouldn't have one set mode you use for one chord. use both the nat9 and b9 over m7b5.

[jster]

CmMelodic | FmMelodic |

D locrian | G7 alt | CmMelodic

Eb dorian | Ab7 mixo | Dbmajor

OK boss, I've been working on this.

1) If you were playing So What, might you use every minor scale? I forgot about harmonic minor, but I just spent the last week noodling away on So What with Dorian, Aeolian, Phyrigian, 2nd mode of melodic minor, and 1st mode of melodic minor. And it seems that with a little elbow grease one can make all of them sound pretty good. Do you agree with that? And if so would might you take it a step further and switch between them for the modulation? (I didn't try that much.)

2) Back to Blue Bossa, why not just talk about an eight note scale with a b7 and a 7. I'm assuming my pianist is playing the b7. Or are you assuming otherwise?

3) And what is the relation between your choices for the first line and your choices for the second two lines?

Thanks.

[JensL]

I hope you had a nice holiday!

1. You could use every minor scale. The given sound of the piece is Dorian, but Coltrane is leaving that on the original recording if I remember correctly. Don't forget that it is not only the scale but also what you do with it and how the band reacts to that that matters.

2. That's possible too. I never really liked that kind of 8 note scales, but that's just me. you could also have a minor scale that covers harmonic, melodic and natural so 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 6 b7 7 ? I have played with people who worked from that concept.

I am assuming the piano player is listening to me?

3. In this example I don't think there is a relation between the lines, I am giving options almost at random.
In the example you've quoted I am actually trying to stick with CmMelodic and the rest is pretty plain except for the Fminor melodic that sounds a bit funny because of the E.

Jens

[jster]

Wow. Thanks for the prompt reply. Yes, had a good time and got a good tan.