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Chromaticism: Chord tones plus the approach notes a half-step below the chord tones will go a long way.
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06-22-2013 12:18 PM
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Just to offer some balance to the predictable anti-CST rants: Chromatic passing notes, approach tones and every other aspect of improvisation are on the table and available at any time when utilizing CST in one's improvisation method.
CST may or may not be helpful depending on the tune or how one processes information but let's at least get the facts right if we're going to keep having this debate. Imposing imaginary limitations as to what can be incorporated when analyzing available pitch collections via CST only serves to muddy an otherwise potentially fruitful dialogue.
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There is a world of difference between execution and theorizing. If you take the basic chord changes in a song, you can analyze the progression all you want, but in the end you have to play it. In the process, you can take a Bm7, flatten the F# fifth to F natural, resolve to E7aug and suddenly it sounds jazzy and hip. A lot lies in the extensions and suspensions, diminished chords, and chromatics of the phrase and chord harmonies. As a fluent reader of notation and classically trained, I would much prefer that someone ask me to flatten or sharpen a fifth, ninth, eleventh,etc than to think about the chord as some scale in Dorian. That is just extraneous.
Last edited by targuit; 06-23-2013 at 05:24 AM.
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As a beginner, if I were shopping for an instructor based on this thread, JonR and henryrobinett would get my money simply because their perspectives on this topic are the easiest to grasp.
Last edited by Broyale; 06-23-2013 at 02:10 AM.
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I'm willing to let people use anything they find useful.
Oh noes! It's the ant-CST volk!
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For the record, I am not against CST--love it actually. I just remember how much the basic chromatic concepts helped my soloing when I was just a wee lad. I think it's the most logical first step.
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From the Gary Burton introduction to Jazz improvising course.
The 10 most common scales.
Lydian
Ionian
Mixolydian
Dorian
Aeolian
Phrygian
Locrian
Lydian flat 7
Altered Scale (You can add the natural fifth, if needed)
Symmetrical Diminished scale
I personally like Gary Burton's approach, he also emphasizes playing chord tones when using the scales.
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The choice of scale would reflect the chord tones, the melody notes and the rest of the notes would be pulled from what you decide the harmonic organization is at that point in the tune, or context.
Originally Posted by barrymclark
This is not a simple subject... Chord Scales such as CST from Berklee are just tools... examples of what may be used, developed from common jazz practice. They simply give the notes that are commonly used from jazz examples.
The organization behind those notes, doesn't break down so simply.
Most start or use as a reference The second degree of Cmaj... "Dmin" or as we slangily use D dorian.
The difference between Cmaj and Dmin, (D dorian), is the organization of relationships between the notes and the context they're within.
If you want to get into those relationships and the many possible context, I'll be glad to help.
Reg
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It is my experience that it is best to keep in mind the overall tonal center you are in, in determining the scale tones to use.
In otherwords - the Am7 chord if in CMajor, or FMajor or GMajor or Dminor, would all have slight variants.
I haven't read much anywhere in these jazz forums about the significance of the leading tone of a chord along with it's 2nd
degree, to really establish the minor root as a temporary tonal center, which is what we jazz players have been doing for decades!
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what? Originally Posted by Staggs89
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Possible using leading tone term to imply 7th degree along with 2nd or 9th and becoming chord tones of relative min.
D-7 to G7 to Cma7
from D-7, 7th or C and 9th or E become 3rd and 5th of A-...or G7 the 7th and 9th, F and A help imply A-.
Or using traditional Maj7th leading tone of target, A-7 and 9th...of a previous chord(s) and create Dom approach?
I'm guessing... I would believe there are a million methods to organize or explain usage or voice leading practice.
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To really establish a tonal center (for the moment) what one has to do. is play the leading tone and the 2nd scale degree of that note, then proceed on.
Whether it's D minor or G minor ( or any note for that matter ) you play the leading tone and 2nd degree of that notes
Major or minor scale to establish ( for the moment ) that notes importance as the reference note in the tonal scheme of
things.
Let's say we have a Dm7 chord happening in the key of F major. To make the Dminor sound more prevalent, we surround
the "D" with C# and E natural, before moving on to the other chord tones and chord tone resolutions.
This is evident in a great number of jazz soloists improvisations. Maybe there is a better way to explain it, but this is as
simple an explanation as I can come up with, without going into that whole secondary dominant business!
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I think this is called using "approach notes" playing notes from above and below a chord tone note. Originally Posted by Staggs89
The four basic approach notes to a chord tone.
Note from above
Note from below
Notes from above and below
Notes from below and above
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That's it alright "aproach note" theory. The use is a little more than that, but that's ok.
If you were to approach every note in a chord by half step below though, you would be playing Dixieland.
Not the hippest thing to do.
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Well, this is chromatic below and diatonic above...and not necessarily the tonic of the new scale as the third note.
Concepts like these worry me occasionally because I can imagine a lot of beginners forcing this to fit at the expense of a strong melodic line.
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Aw ... go ahead! The truth will set you free. Originally Posted by Staggs89
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Aw ... go ahead! The truth will set you free.
Well maybe! I don't have enough time left on this planet to do that though! Just check out Freddie Hubbard or
the preacher man Stanley T. and you will see what I mean.
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Originally Posted by Staggs89
's alright, mon. your second attempt was perfectly clear.
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So is it a melodic technique or a harmonic application expressed melodically.
I tend to always hear as harmonic reference. And pretty standard application of implying target. Leading tone would typically imply some type of Dominant approach,( sorry I know Staggs 89 didn't want to get into the Dominant, secondary or extended Dominant thing,I'll keep it short).
Doesn't always imply tonal center... unless your calling every chord change a new tonal center. But one on many methods to imply harmonic movement... like using 4th and 5th degrees of target chord, or any other melodic use of implying any functional harmonic movement.
The point is to imply the target right...
The choice of application to imply that target would need to reflect the context. Depending on the changes... and at what level you want to imply that target.
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I like your word "imply"! To answer your question - primarily a melodic technique but also a means to "point out the
tanality". We are dealing with melody and harmony intrinsically when composing lines of music within our 12 tone
system. Some chords last a long time!
Take the first 6 bars of "Speak Low". IGm7 IC7 IGm7 IC7 IGm C7 IGm7 C7 I We normally don't think modes when
progressing through a whole lot of changes in a tune. That would be insane since the modes of each chord change all
over the place, and playing one mode because of the key signature or some other reason would not work. Although
Miles did it in the Kind Of Blue album many times.
In "Speak Low" we have a choice though. You can stick with purely G dorian for 6 bars, or you can "enhance" the sound
of Gminor by surrounding it with it's leading tone and 2nd degree once in awhile for melodic movement,
which to the ear establishes G as the tonal center for the moment. Since this phrase is in the key of F Major, we would
stick to notes which are from the key signature unless we want to sound "outside".
A more complex way of looking at this is , in a II - V change, the basic Gm triad stays into the C7 as chord tones ( D being
the ninth) the melodic progression can work through the G, F#,F, to E ( the 3rd ) of the C chord in it's resolution.
Even though we're primarily thinking G dorian here. use of the F# to point back at the "root" is an invention we use to
manipulate around in Gminor. Modes are labels best used by theorists and music professors, not jazz musicians on the
bandstand!
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Chords have slightly different scales dependant upon there surroundings. In the II - V - I progression
( of which a lot of our musical language is set ) the scale of the II chord is programmed ( usually ) by where the
progression is headed ( whether Major or minor ).
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Back where I come from, we calls 'em enclosures... Originally Posted by Staggs89
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I think it's important to consider how the tune's tempo affects (or should affect) one's approach to soloing... Originally Posted by Staggs89
I remember learning a lesson when I first tackled Scrapple From the Apple...
It has a series of ii-Vs that "rock back & forth" before resolving... Gm7 C7 I Gm7 C7 I F
This tune is usually played at a decent clip. I found that when playing this at tempo, if really outlined the chords, it sounded like somebody sped up a record - kinda Mickey Mouse, if you know what I mean...so, one way that sounded right to me was to look at the changes more like: Gm7 Gm7 I Gm7 C7 I F - where I'm thinking minor bebop on the ii and then the dom is altered city (maybe), to the major..
Or, if I'm feeling more rambunctious, I might approach like: C7 C7 I C7 C7 I F, and have one idea that spans that whole dom section...
If something like this were taken at a ballad tempo, all bets are off, and vertical thinking can work a little better...
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Originally Posted by Staggs89
Quite often, if the minor chord is in front of it's V, it can be treated as a ii even if it's technically not, like in Bb rhythm changes:
When you see:
Dm7 G7 I Cm7 F7 - first of all, it's a common device to change that vi to a dominant (G7), so, from where I sit, I just treat this as 2 sets of ii-Vs...
Hope this is of help to someone - I'm probably just preaching to the choir...
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Hey! You're right on! I've been in choirs before and never got hurt! Seriously - you make good sense to me at least.
Another facet of changes lasting awhile like in my Speak Low example above, is to alternate between the Gm7, and Am7 ( 2 chord of G ), and Gm7, before going to C7 and moving on. Even Gm7, Am7, BbMajor,Am7, Gm7 to C7b9 works for me as a
nice sequence in phrases such as this. Just my 2 cents worth.
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