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=ma7b5 a tritone away
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04-24-2013 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by JakeAcci
Tritone what a beautiful thing.
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No one probably cares, but on the mandolin the same dim chord in the same spot can be used as four different dim chords. Same with aug.
Getting Into Jazz Mandolin - Ted Eschliman - Google Books
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Originally Posted by Jonzo
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Originally Posted by JakeAcci
Feel free to drop some suggestions on Ravel and Debussy stuff?
Jens
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Originally Posted by JensL
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The wikipedia entry on the chord was kind of lame in that it left out the whole point of the music of Tristan as a whole is that things don't get resolved until the Liebestod. This video isn't bad, but Fry really screws it up, the ultimate resolution is to B major:
Here's the Liebestod, which is almost always paired with the Prelude in concert performances. You might hear the Liebestod without the Prelude, but never the other way around. Don't want to leave your audience hanging, even if the jazzers might not care.
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Hah! Do they always call a m7b5 the "Tristan" chord, the way rockers call 7#9 the "Hendrix" chord?
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Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
The Soap Opera chord = mi Ma7
Charlie's Angel chord = Ma7b5
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Originally Posted by docbop
I better stake out a chord before they're all gone! I kinda like this: x32442 (B | C)
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Originally Posted by JakeAcci
What I can think of so far is this:
1: Different locrian modes over a dom7b9 from each root of the diminished. If they all sound good this can be a great formula for substitutions. I love subbing one tonality over another, like the up a minor third II-V sub for instance. I'm thinking something like that.
2: Different m7b5 arpeggios over the dom7b9. If they all produce valid note choices then one can basically play a collection of m7b5 arpeggios a minor third apart. Of course the challenge then would be to link together different inversions in a way so that it doesn't sound mechanical or obvious. With passing tones or something.
3: Different melodic minors a minor third apart. Actually the melodic minor contains two m7b5s a whole step apart. Since a minor third interval differs from a whole step by a semitone, it could possibly create harmonic conflicts.
Just thinking out loud. Bringing out the guitar this time of night will piss off the neighbors. I'm probably going to test these things out tomorrow. First the minor third arpeggio collection, if that works then the other ones might work too.
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Originally Posted by jster
Thanks for the videos though
Jens
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Originally Posted by JensL
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Btw, here is the start of Tristan und Isolde with the m7b5:
xx3444-5 x767x6-7Last edited by BigDaddyLoveHandles; 04-25-2013 at 10:27 AM.
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Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
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Here's the score of the Liebestod:
http://imslp.org/wiki/Special:ReverseLookup/20353
Just click View when it comes up.Last edited by jster; 04-25-2013 at 12:37 PM.
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Originally Posted by AmundLauritzen
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Interesting task:
Use m7b5 chords as a means of expressing various common harmonic sequences.
Examples:
Cm7b5 F7alt Bbm6 = Cm7b5 Ebm7b5 Gm7b5
Cm7 F7 Bbma7 = Am7b5 Am7b5 Em7b5
Ebm7 Ab7 Bbma7 = Cm7b5 Cm7b5 Em7b5
Stella by Starlight with only m7b5 chords - an arpeggio etude in the making?:
Em7b5 - - - |Gm7b5 - - - |Am7b5 - - - |- - - -
Dm7b5 - - - |- - - - |Am7b5* - - - |Cm7b5- - - |
Ebm7b5 Em7b5 - - |Em7b5 - Gm7b5 - |Bm7b5- - - |Gm7b5- - - |
Bbm7b5 Bm7b5 - - |Em7b5 - Gm7b5 - |Am7b5- - - |Cm7b5- - - |
Fm7b5- - - |- - - - |Am7b5- - - |- - - - |
Cm7b5- - - |- - - - |Em7b5- - - |- - - |
Em7b5- - - |Gm7b5- - - |Dm7b5- - - |Fm7b5- - - |
Cm7b5- - - |Ebm7b5- - - |Em7b5*- - - |- - - - |
* m7b5 with b9 in the melody
substitution guide in making the above:
Cm7b5 = Cm7b5
C7 unaltered or lydian dominant = Em7b5
C7alt = Bbm7b5
Cm7 = Cm6 = Am7b5
Cmaj7 = F#m7b5
Could take arpeggios through "Stella" above, or voice lead chords, or use the chord symbols as a loose guide for how to color the harmony.
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See...now we're getting somewhere...going to try this as soon as I can get my hands on a guitar today.
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Pretty cool...The Maj7 was one I hadn't really thought about before.
Anyway this is for ref...similar but not as in-depth with subs and viewed as a min6 instead of m7b5
http://www.jazzand.com/Rick_Stone/Ar...ale%20Subs.pdf
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I think this was mentioned at the start, but under the idea of "m7b5 shall rule them all!", if you play a iim7b5 over the V bass, you get the susb9 sound:
Dm7b5/G = D F Ab C + G.
I like doing this when there is no ii chord before the V. Cool Herbie Hancock sound, and you get to resolve that sus4 down to the major 7 in the following I chord.
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