Chord Progression: Scale/Mode Compatibility

[kofblz]

I hate this way of cheating. I can't hear it. I tried playing displaced pentatonics to get good out tones, but it simply does not work.
It's not ear thing. Ocassionaly, I can hear #11 work 0ver I in ii V I, sometimes, even nat 7 over dom7 in V of ii V I, but to practice playing unrelated pentatonic is soo fqed up concept. I think even the "out notes" have to be "in in cotext". This shitty way of doing it just gives wrong notes we can only pretend are good.

I don't like that pentatonic trick either, just doesn't sound that great to me. It goes from very in to very out and then back in again. Still it's a useful thing to have in your bag of tricks. I like staying on the first pentatonic longer, into the V chord, and then using the 2nd pentatonic as a shorter, passing sound better.

What's the deal with moving something up 3 frets that sounds so good??? I tried this on a ii - V - I with good results, both for comping and soloing. Just move a minor 7 chord up 3 frets and then back one fret.

In C...
ii - Dm7 (D, F, A, C)
V - G7, up 3 frets (F, Ab, C, Eb) - b7, b9, 11, b13
I - Cmaj7, back 1 fret (E, G, B, D) - 3, 5, 7, 9

I guess this is another one of those "cheating" gimmicks, but it sounds better to my ears than the pentatonic thingy.

[kofblz]

Another 3 fret miracle that most of you probably already know...

In a ii V I, where the ii is a minor7b5, you can just move it back 3 frets and you get an instant V9 chord. Then move it up one fret and with a slight adjustment, keeping the fingers on the same string, you can find your Imaj7 chord. It's magic!

In Eb

ii Fm7b5

X
9
8
9
8
X

V9 back 3 frets

X
6
5
6
5
X

Imaj7

X
8
7
8
6

[Reg]

Hey INKY...

Before you just play... you usually need a reference for your playing to be in reference to. Some where to start from...so when you solo, create relationships and develop them, they make some musical sense, both to your ears and organizationally.

II V I can be in relationship to any one of the individual chords... I, II or V... not just I. You can also use targets of each individual chord. ( we're leaving melodic reference out). The next step would be creating the relationships from what ever beginning reference you choose.

The use of pentatonic patterns created from note collections would be an application of a couple of different approach concepts... depending on the basic reference.

Usually what makes pentatonic patterns sound musical is the use of a few different organizational concepts... which helps create more harmonic levels of reference.

I'm not trying to make something very simple sound complicated... but there are reasons why different applications, such as pentatonic patterns, have different results.

Reg

[kofblz]

often times jazzers will consider a scale for each chord. That can be confusing as people want to race through the whole scale over the chord.

And it's not an either/or thing. In a 2 or 3 chorus solo there might be a long section where you more or less stay in one scale, and not necessarily the most appropriate major or minor scale.

[GuyBoden]

Playing the tonic scale and each chord's tones over a iiVI is great for beginners, but when the chords get more complex you'll need some more ideas.

Example: Using a C Major scale over a more complex progression won't sound good.

| Dm7 | G7sus4b9 | CMaj7 | C7sus4 |

[ColinO]

Guy - That's a good point. I'm a beginner/intermediate in jazz. If I saw that progression, I would probably curl up in the corner for a while sobbing and then I would probably be thinking C major scale over the first three bars and trying to work in an Ab over the second bar and then F Major over the 4th bar. Or I might be thinking C major scale over bars one and three and arpeggio over the second bar and probably F major over the fourth bar.

What would your approach be to that progression?

[GuyBoden]

Guy - That's a good point. I'm a beginner/intermediate in jazz. If I saw that progression, I would probably curl up in the corner for a while sobbing and then I would probably be thinking C major scale over the first three bars and trying to work in an Ab over the second bar and then F Major over the 4th bar. Or I might be thinking C major scale over bars one and three and arpeggio over the second bar and probably F major over the fourth bar.

What would your approach be to that progression?

Many options, but I'd try to play the 4ths, 5ths, 7ths, 9ths notes on the G7sus4b9 and C7sus4.

Over, G7sus4b9 I'd like to hear C, D, F and Ab.
Over, C7sus4 I'd like to hear F, G, Bb and D.


A scale approach would be:
G7sus4b9 = G Dorian b9 or G Phrygian or one of my favs "G Mixolydian b9"
C7sus4 = Bb Major Pentatonic or C Mixolydian