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Forgive me for the potential stupidity of this question, but I'm getting ready to embark on my personal journey to become an accomplished jazz guitarist, and I have a couple of questions. First, how important is it to be proficient in reading musical notation and have an extremely solid understanding of theory.
For instance, in the past when I learn a new rock, or pop song, all you have to do is get online and look up the tab or chord chart and you're pretty much good to go.
I haven't noticed it to be this easy with the jazz standards, since every artists usually has their own unique way of playing and jazz is mostly improvisational.
Anyway, I just bought the "Complete Idiot's Guide to Music Theory" tonight from my local bookstore. I thoroughly plan on devouring this book and soaking up all I can about theory before I start trying to learn jazz tunes, but...I guess I'm just looking for reassurance that it will pay off big in the long run.
Perhaps I'm just thinking out loud here, but if anyone can add any insight or comments to my thoughts I'd appreciate it.
Thanks
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12-27-2012 09:37 PM
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Jazz is very different from just about any other music because like you noted, it's improvisational. That's the real purpose of doing it.
Now a lot of music has improvisational elements to it, rock included, but in jazz, you're drawing on the whole history of western classical music and more, depending on where on the spectrum you want to reside.
So think of it this way, when people get together to play, each time a tune is called, the jazz musician becomes the composer. In the most rigourous sense of the word. The jazz musician must know the structure of harmony so they can convey the chordal feeling, define their solo according to the tune. You must also be able to know the flow of chords, that's theory, and be able to read the bone structure of the piece, then create an original and thoughtfully expressive composition over this. To do this in real time, with a sense of rhythmic breath and drama, you have to know the meaning of each note.
If you're reading tab, something that was written out, you are playing sounds, and even being pretty hip and sounding good, but you really can't take credit for the compositional initiative. In jazz, that' step 1. You have to be able to compose, with the same tools Bach, Beethoven and Debussey used. Then you have to do it every 8 minutes when a new tune is called.
Standards are pre-set forms so everyone has a repertoire for the architecture of the piece, but your knowledge of theory will extend from there. You will likely be writing your own tunes, or be required to be able to read, understand and compose over original material. This applies to every level.
Composition and improvisation are often seen as the same process, it's just a matter of time frame and the degree of detail you're afforded. So think of it this way: Somebody ticks off a beat and says "Compose something right now." Can you see how you're playing a different game here?
Hope this is helpful.
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Thanks man! That is very helpful, and I appreciate your input. So you're saying my purchase tonight was not a waste?
Seriously though, what are the sections of this book that will mostly pertain to my jazz education? Some of the topics covered include...
- Pitches and Clefs
- Intervals
- Scales
- Note Values and Basic Notation
- Melodies
- Chords and Progressions
- Transcribing what you hear
- Chord substitutions and turnarounds
- Composing and Arranging for Voices and INstruments
- Lead Sheets and Scores
I realize that all of that is probably important, but any additional notes would be appreciated. Thanks again.
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Yes, just do it, all of it.
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Agreed.
Originally Posted by RyanM
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If you go into jazz with a "how much work do I have to do?" mentality, you'll never learn to play jazz.
that said, fundamentals are more important than a bunch of theory. Know the notes on the fretboard...know how to build chords...know the major scales inside out and how to harmonize them...nothing esoteric...music 101 first semester stuff.
And yes, learn to read music. It's not that hard...you don't even have to be great at it...just be able to read a single note line and recognize common jazz syncopations....this will make your life much easier. Much.
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Thanks Mr Beaumont. I definitely dont have that mentality. If I came off that way thats not the case at all. I'm not trying to skate by on the minimum by any means. Looking forward to learning all I can! It's definitely a journey for me.
With that said thanks for your other advice as well.
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More important to understand theory than rock, or country, but less important to learn to read as in classical music. Some get bogged down in theory and scales, and others never learn to read. If your enjoyment stops you are probably doing too much of one or the other.
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You could short circuit the long and rambling road that is a general theory
text.
...General theory knowledge is undeniably a good and useful thing, but you
could spend much time down that rabbit hole, with the result of becoming
somewhat of an "over-thinker" in improvisation situations as many here
may attest. [Myself included...but I'm responding well to treatment] ha ha!
But wait, I do offer an alternative course of action.....
Study a book by a master jazz improvisor/legendary improv teacher.
Get the book "Ready, Aim Improvise" by Hal Crook.
It teaches what you NEED to know to play jazz, no more no less.....
Check Hal Crook's credentials online.
BTW, I am in no way affiliated to him or Berklee college, just an immensly
grateful user of his material.
You would also benefit from some input from a JAZZ player who is also a
communicative teacher,to help with the inevitable questions that arise for
even the most determined self-teacher.
Doesn't have to be a guitarist.....some of my best teachers have been pianists or horn players.
Best wishes for your jazz journey....as the others have said, don't wait
till.........?......Just do it and you got it!
And in Pierre's immortal words...."Time on the Instrument"
[You'll meet Pierre here during your visits]
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Awesome, thanks guys! I love how active this forum is.
My plan is to go through this theory book once, but not obsess over the material. Just make sure I understand the concepts and move on. I don't think I'm really going for the whole sight reading routine (unless you all recommend it). I just want to be able to know what I'm looking at when it comes to looking at notation. Plus I need a good review of intervals, and scales as well.
I'll probably be using it as a good reference for the rest of my playing career, as opposed to something I must master right from the start and dump.
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Hey Brandon
Don't want to appear too dogmatic here, but I promise you that you will get
a seriously good grounding in scale structure, intervals and their inversions,
chord construction and on to chord/scale relations and chord to chord progression in "Ready Aim Improvise".
Hal Crook has very concisely and clearly written chapters on each topic in
turn and finishes each chapter with a full workout of exercises on that topic.
One thing that specially impressed me from a teacher's point of view, is
that very fact. He has you work through all permutations of say,
intervals in the [usually one page] ex. section.
I've seen many,many such books,that could be found in the Uni library where I worked for a while, and they give a great clear exposition of the topic and then
give only a few ex's on each key say.....so the student is left to their own devices, or the already over worked teacher has to provide more ex's.
There is always the bedding in of the basic building blocks such as intervals.
How you accomplish that is quite a personal matter.
...Usually much repetition is the way.....remember multiplication tables?
I have seen, books with 100's of pages of diagrams, websites with more of
the same....but the answer is to simply play each ex on your guitar and
you'll pretty soon make your own wiring/linkages....Makes for a much
deeper learning experience I think. You want to own it!
OK...I'm getting to rant mode, sorry to bug you Brandon, I'm just as much
thinking aloud to myself....[quite revealing]....but hey I've been doing this a while now. Like c. 50 years...sheesh.....when do I get there?!...ha ha!
Go on and have a ball man.......Remember it's fun....Big Fun....
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Yes. This subject has been very high on my mind of late. Choose a small number of things, rewarding topics to jump into at first. So many jazz students will let their enthusiasm be overtaken by the spectre of countless hours learning before doing. I've seen the practice paralysis that results. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
Find a friend, if you can, who can do this with you. Having human interaction will go an enormous way in the learning process. This may be the single greatest benefit offered from a music school. It takes over what used to be the role of the traveling big band community.
Work on ear training, it can be a fun game and you'll feel results for as long as you are a musician.
You might look at a list of standards that starts with early swing tunes done by big bands. I say this because, even though it may not be your bag, it gives you an immersion in a style that was quite essential, and you can and should learn the language as it grew and evolved. Plus, ear playing played a big part in musicians brought up in that tradition. I loved discovering the early Coleman Hawkins music, and many standards we play now, had their origins back in the 30's. Do check it out. Put it in you ipod and make it a game to listen and hear the primary chord movement.
On that topic, get your diatonic chord movement in your ear. The Van Eps method is good for this, you can work with triadic movement up the fingerboard and it's good for your linear sense as well as your ear.
Then move to dominant and secondary dominant sounds. Both of these things are big in swing music-and clear to hear.
Don't get overwhelmed. If you ever wake up and it looks like a depressingly large amount of work ahead, grab that thing you've been working on and put the instrument in your hands, find that tune you like and look at it thoughtfully, kill the autopilot and engage yourself. Remember to have fun.
And the Hal Crook book, yes, a very good call.
I have also turned to Mick Goodrick's The Advancing Guitarist for the entire time I've had it. It continues to offer advice on so many hidden levels. It's a book that will support you and challenge you no matter what level guitarist you are.
And all this is just my opinion. I hope it might be useful in your making your own.
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the journey is more enjoyable than the destination...
it's a wonderful ride....enjoy it....
do not look for success...with time spent on the instrument it will find you..
time on the instrument...
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Once again guys... Wow! Wasn't expecting all these responses. Thank you all for the advice!
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I've been really thinking about whether I'm practicing the right things to meet my goals. It's easy to chase every new idea but not master any of them.
I think trying to swallow a whole course/book in music theory may not be the most efficient way to get yourself up and running and playing jazz tunes.
First thing is to define ones goals. Second, is to figure out the most efficient way to get there. This is where a teacher or someone more experienced can really help.
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Good evening, Brandon... Originally Posted by BrandonB
If I may add my tuppence-worth to this thread...
One becomes accomplished only after becoming proficient, which in turn follows on from competent, preceded by average, and modest, and beginner, to noobie. Whilst not wishing to denigrate your final aim, I would suggest that establishing a more attainable, short-term goal would give a greater chance of reaching the ultimate goal..?
A solid foundation with a wide base will be a more solid structure than too much expertise too thinly grounded.
In short, study the book, but, at the same time, prepare all the other elements required. A teacher would be ideal, of course, but failing that, be prepared to spend some time working (enjoyably, one hopes, but working just the same...) on all the aspects needed to become a beginner. From there, aspire modest skill, then average... and so on, until your ultimate goal is reached.
Patience, then..? Don't bite off more than you can chew, and don't rush. The faster one runs, the harder the knock when one trips. 'Softly, softly, catchee monkey' and all that.
Hope this helps...
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I think it's important and, to boot, it's really not very difficult. The same patterns come up quite often. Learning to play is a lot more work than learning the theory.
I do remember finding the theory overwhelmingly hard at first, but with a little persistence you'll break through the wall.
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There was a quote on a bass instruction site I liked. Here's a paraphrase:
Theory didn't create Music. Music is primary. Theory is just there to help us understand why some things sound good.
I like to keep this in mind, even as some theory things are useful. Basically they are little "tricks" like the tritone substitution -- shortcuts to sounding good. And while some music may well have been composed based on theory of chord sequence, etc., I still like the idea that music is primary -- the most important thing is, "does it sound good?"Last edited by JazzinNY; 12-29-2012 at 02:28 AM. Reason: remove wacky font
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Theory to me more important is the common language for musicians to communicate in and saves inventing your own "language". Good ear players still learn "theory" they just have to reinvent the wheel to put labels on things so they can use reuse them. Originally Posted by JazzinNY
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Knowing functional harmony is really important. Being able to re-harmonize on the fly is a skill that will take you far.
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I would recommend a Jazz theory book instead of a general classical based book. In fact I always recommend Mark Levines "Jazz Theory". It is very comprehensive. Keep reading it over a number of years and more of it will make sense.
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Solo on I Got Rhythm
Listen to Charlie Parker
Play Standards well
Off you go
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Once again guys. Awesome advice! Can't say it enough. Will definitely take all of your advice into consideration.
@Petimar, I actually previously owned Mark Levine's Jazz Theory book but sold it on eBay...doh! That was one of my previous attempts to learn jazz guitar but failed when I realized it might actually take some study and work
I'm sure I'll be acquiring that one in due time as well. Thanks!
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levine's book is not beginner stuff...
I still love Mickey baker's method...but I'm Old Fashioned. But I don't mind it.
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I agree with the advice about Mark Levine's book, it is excellent. I personally think reading notation is an important consideration, it makes it much easier to see how things work when written down, Tab is far too abstract. You should try learn all about how chords and scales work. The most important thing however is to remember the theory is there to help you shape and create the music not to define it. The music must come from your heart, the theory is only a tool.
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