Sub for min ii b5 chord

[Jazzmonk64]

I'm tired of playing the standard half diminished chord in a minor ii-v-i

What can I use as a substitution?

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

bVIMaj7, with or without a #11. Some people like to do it as a dom7.

[Jazzmonk64]

Thanks Big Daddy.I got some nice tones with inversions of these.

[Toddep]

Say if your first chord is a D-7b5, use a F-maj7 and it will give you a D-9b5 without the root

[docbop]

I like to use a mi7 from the 3rd of the mi7b5 So for a Ami7b5 sub Cmi7.

Gives you the b3, b5, 7th, b9.

[Tag]

I like to use a mi7 from the 3rd of the mi7b5 So for a Ami7b5 sub Cmi7.

Gives you the b3, b5, 7th, b9.

Thats the one I like the most. The Dorian off the flat 3rd, which is actually just an easy way to look at the locrian scale.
So A-7b5 (locrian) equals C dorian equals Ebmaj7 (Lydian), or you can even play over F7(Mixolidian). All the same function, all the same lines work. If you play C melodic minor instead of dorian, it gives you the cool #11 and #5 of the EbMaj7.

[timscarey]

A simple but cool thing I like to do is make it a half-dim sus 4 or add an 11 on top. 9 and 11 together sound nice too.

C F Gb Bb
Eb Gb Bb F
Eb Gb Bb F D

Or, sometimes it sounds interesting to use harmonic major and include the natural 13 (tougher on guitar than by some other means)

Bb Hamonic Major as C half-dim 13...

C Eb Gb Bb D F A

[pingu]

Thats the one I like the most. The Dorian off the flat 3rd, which is actually just an easy way to look at the locrian scale. So A-7b5 (locrian) equals C dorian .

I like that sound a lot too Thats a great way to think of it .... thanks man that will help I've thinking about it from the G minor so the the C minor is the iv of the G minor

[Reg]

Yea altering the Min7b5 chord with modal interchange of target or with min7b5 as target has lots of possibilities depending on reference and harmonic concept... or using functional type of sub... like adding or changing reference of say A-7b5 to as mentioned above... the relative II-7 of implied key... (either Bbmaj or G-).
So say A-7b5 D7#9 G-9... Using C-(dorian) to D7alt to Gmin. (of your choice). Take the next step... think of the next function sub of Cdorian... Eb lydian. So now... C-11, Ebma9#11, D7#9, G-7. Then start using Modal interchange with reference to any of the changes...

Any min7b5 chord can be either VI-7b5 or VII-7b5 of Melodic Min. So A-7b5 can be, depending on context, VI-7b5 from C MM or VII-7b5 from BbMM. Once you open the melodic Min reference... you can use in modal type of MM application... access to any chord from MM... either Cmm or Bbmm. ( VII-7b5 is also Altered, just actual spelling).

Access to MM also opens blue note door...Schofield style...yea I know any harmonic area is accessible from any other harmonic area...

And you can always rock and roll with pentatonics... Joe Henderson style

[Tag]

I like that sound a lot too Thats a great way to think of it .... thanks man that will help I've thinking about it from the G minor so the the C minor is the iv of the G minor

Yes. Because when ii-7b5 is followed by a V7, its usually tension back to the i. Once you hit the i chord, I would then look at the iv chord as a IV7, giving me a Dorian sound on the i. So D-7b5/G7/C-7 can be played as F-13/G7/C-7. On that C-7, you can play C-7 dorian, F7 mixolidian, EbMaj7 (Ionian or lydian) and a-7b5 (locrian) for tonic sounds. Thats the Martino way of converting to minor, or basically how Benson plays by function on most standard changes. Theres all kinds of other things you can do, but thats where most sounds start from IMO.

[Tag]

A simple but cool thing I like to do is make it a half-dim sus 4 or add an 11 on top. 9 and 11 together sound nice too.

C F Gb Bb
Eb Gb Bb F
Eb Gb Bb F D

Or, sometimes it sounds interesting to use harmonic major and include the natural 13 (tougher on guitar than by some other means)

Bb Hamonic Major as C half-dim 13...

C Eb Gb Bb D F A

Some beautiful voicings there!

[Tag]

One other simple thing thats done all the time is to just add the major third to the A minor7b5 chord. That gives you A7b5#9. Then you just have a II7/V7/i (A7/D7/Gminor) or, use the b5 sub to give you Eb7/D7/Gminor

[Stevebol]

I like to use a mi7 from the 3rd of the mi7b5 So for a Ami7b5 sub Cmi7.

Gives you the b3, b5, 7th, b9.

That's what I use most of the time. I throwing in the 6th a lot on the Cm.

[bondmorkret]

Some cool ideas here!

[redwater]

A-7b5 can be seen as F13, then try the tritone sub B7 and play your dominant lines in B7 against A-7b5.

[LowYoYo]

I like to think over an minor harmonic context , for example on Am7b5 : on a Ebmaj sub you can up the 2nd to a #2nd give you a MH lydian #9 which is a door to play V D7 as a 7b9 , rather classic on II V minor context .

Another way : on this Am7b5 substituted as a C MM , keep the perfect 11 of the EbMaj7 , becoming a ionian #5 , I like this one cause the 11 is the root of the b5 sub of V D7 ( Ab7)

I prefer those MH sub on the II rather than often play the b9 of the V , cause this one bore me , sometimes I like to sound fully MH , but for me it's especially a way to had some chromaticism with a more colorful sound.

[M-ster]

bVIMaj7, with or without a #11. Some people like to do it as a dom7.

A related idea: If D-7b5 may also be seen as a Bb7 voicing, how about Bb/Ab to G7? (Some may also contend that Bb/Ab is a possible voicing for Ab7 lyd, so here is the relation to BDLH's "bVI" suggestion.)

[GuyBoden]

Using Melodic Minor harmony.

So, if you're using the 6th mode of the Melodic Minor for improvising over the min7b5, theoretically any chord derived from the same Melodic Minor scale can be used:

Examples subs for Dm7b5:

Fmin/Maj7 G7susb9 Abmaj7#5 Bb7#11 C7b13 Dm9b5 E7alt