-
Great! Thanks already.
-
03-09-2016 06:33 AM
-
Subscribed.... :-)
Originally Posted by Reg
-
Here are some basic MM fingerings. The thing to keep in mine is you want fingerings that repeat ... and work for all types of note organization, scales, arpeggios licks etc.
Generally that's one of the reasons I use what I do... anyway I need to get on the road, Ill post some vid clips of how they look and work on the neck. How I use them. They're just one starting reference..
-
Thanks Reg.
I always follow closely what you have to say.
-
Yes, thanks a lot, Reg! This is just gold to me.
The scales, arpeggio's and also the comments you added.
As always when I read your remarks, after some things I don't grasp (yet), comes some big insight.
In this case: regarding solo's as target notes on the top 4 or middle 4 string sets with filler material with reference to a chord.
Good luck on the road..
-
In reaction to your notes in the second document:
“and I hope you already have this taken care of with Maj.”
I’ve been practicing your major scales and 7th and complete arpeggio’s for a few weeks now. Transforming my dominant bebop scales and even the Pat Martino “activities” I started out with. To fit into the fingerings.
But only now am I practicing all this per position, as in your exercise with the melodic minor. Finally I have a MM fingering that ties in naturally with my major fingering. Thanks for that!
2 questions:
- In maj with phrygian and in MM with the 6th degree you give 2 fingering options. Have you chosen or do you use both?
- I would like to practice moving through the maj positions in one run. Sliding, jumping, moving? Right now I slide with the index to the next position if a half step up is available... Would you care to share some tips on how to?Last edited by 57classic; 03-11-2016 at 03:57 PM.
-
Thanks, Reg. I don't have all my Major stuff together yet, so I'll hold off on starting with these, but I'm happy to have them handy for when I'm ready!
-
I see the one you're talking about with MM, but not the major. Which post # is that? Originally Posted by 57classic
-
Matt,
the major fingerings are in #19 of this thread but also in post #1 of
https://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/getting-started/44629-techniques-picking-fingerings-basics-speed-jazz.html
with tabs and the optional fingering I referred to. Sorry for the confusion.
(And in #15 of that thread are the two pages of arpeggio’s to go with the major scale positions.)
Nice that you are going for this aswell!
-
Wow.cool I had forgotten that bit in the other thread. I followed and participated in it as well . really great thread. One of the best I've seen , I'd say. Originally Posted by 57classic
Regarding phrygian, I'd think he mostly uses the second finger root version, from, what I've seen. In fact, I've never seen anything else where he talks about starting from the third finger with Phrygian. I would guess it has to do with just being able to relate the Phrygian pattern with the Locrian pattern, (if starting on 3. They're the same scale, with one note different.) He's also talked about playing Locrian from 2 in the past. Says you should probably know both.
I think that starting everything from 2, except for Locrian, is kind of his default base though. I'll be interested in his take as well. I've been playing around with this for a while now, though I don't really have a lot of practice time available at this point in my life.
Melodic minor is kind of what pushed me over the edge, to jump in with both feet, as it were. Actually simplifies a lot. I personally think it's easier to learn seven positions melodic minor this way, (if you know the parallel major counterparts), than to learn 4 or 5 positions of melodic minor the other way.
-
From the same thread , very applicable to current conversation:
There's another one , really close in time line to that one, I'll have to find later. Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 03-12-2016 at 10:10 AM.
-
Good to know about that 2nd finger. I guess that would be a second finger stretch.
I also find it easier to grasp MM thinking this way.
Looking back I find the 5 positions not optimal to get to know the fingerboard.
Thanks for the vids!
-
2nd finger stretch?? I don't think there are any second finger stretches in abt of this. Mostly 1st finger stretches with a couple of 4th finger stretches that are more exceptions in the ones starting on 3... Which place are you talking about? Originally Posted by 57classic
-
Here's the other technique vid of reg's which outlines some of this stuff:
Ha. I just noticed he plays Locrian kind of both ways. Up starting second finger , down with third finger base.Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 03-12-2016 at 02:14 PM.
-
That's exactly what I thought when reading that, Matt! The 2nd finger is the anchor. (It works nicely that way because it is in the middle of the hand.) Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
It hasn't been said (-that I am aware of) but when you use the 2nd finger for the root (-in these fingerings), there are only two notes on the low E string. If you want to economy pick, you can start with an upstroke on the first note, a downstroke for the second one and then let that downstroke carry through to the first note on the A string. If you don't economy pick, it's down , up, and then a downstroke for the first note on the A string.
-
Now, I'm still a bit confused with this system mostly because I'm bad at guitar.
So, okay. I've learned all the shapes for the various scales in G Major etc. And I want to play in C Major. Do I just take the G major shape and shift it up to the 8th fret? Or do I do it by taking the C lydian shape and flatting all the F#s?
Should I just learn all the notes on the neck, all the ways of constructing scales, and just use those? I dunno. There's so much to music and I'm not sure which approach is right.
-
You can think about it in all of those ways I suppose , but I don't know that thinking about it in all of those ways is really necessary to start . If you're playing G major at the third fret , and you suddenly decide or "need" to play in C, then yes, you might think about lowering the F sharps, but understand that when you talk about "lowering ALL the F sharps" There are only two (or 3, depending on how you're looking at it ) in that position. Originally Posted by Shadow of the Sun
At some level, you really MUST know where the seven and flat seven are in a relationship to G anyway, but if you've practiced all of the other scale degree positions, once you begin playing G mixolydian at the third fret, your fingers take over, and "understand" what you're playing without as much "thinking". You can imagine that they will also somewhat know where A Aolian is, as well etc. etc.
I think there's probably more to be "understood" in PLAYING them than in explaining them. The verbal part is probably the most confusing, at least it was for me. It's probably best to start with one reference point like one fret position, and focus on what changes rather then what stays the same. Like, are you thinking of C as "eighth fret" or something. Yes, it is that, and you can think about it that way, but starting with C at the third fret, FROM G on the sixth string, might be a more helpful start. In seeing the relationships which are constant, namely pitch or letter name.
G is always in the same place etc.Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 03-13-2016 at 08:10 AM.
-
Learning all the notes on the neck is good. That is not so hard. You probably already know all the notes on the low E and A string. The high E is the same as the low, so that's half the neck right there! For the D string, everything is two frets behind where it is on the E string. (This makes playing octaves easy.) For the G string, everything is two frets behind where it is on the A string. (Ditto.) That leaves the B string, the wild card. Fortunately the first fretted not there is a C and the C major scale is the easiest of all: C D E F G A B C. Find that and you're pretty much home free. Originally Posted by Shadow of the Sun
I think learning all the ways of constructing scales is not the best use of your time. Herb Ellis warned against this: he said it takes a lot of time to practice scales in all possible positions and that some are impractical for performing and there's always a risk of sounding like someone playing scales. He played (mainly) out of a few simple chord shapes. He knew his way around the neck like a champ. He was a champ.
Another way to look at this is how Carol Kaye does it. She doesn't teach scales. (I don't think there's a fingering of even the major scale in any of her books.) She teaches chords. You need to know chords and how they move. When you know chords, you have your "anchors" (-chord tones) and can lead to and away from them without too much trouble. (It takes practice but at least that is practice making music!)
-
?! Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
May be, or maybe, given your perception of what is behind and what is ahead was a norm, "... for the B string everything is 2 frets ahead where it is on the A string ...".
Which immediately brings us to the point where it may be better to have top 2 strings as a reference, especially B, as opposed to the lowest 2, because there you'd have more constant lag, as A is 2 from B, G is 2 from A, (E is 3 down from G) while D is still 2 down from E a in your example, with B another 3 down from D.
Not to mention, you could use 7 frets as a referent distance, or 5 ...
Anyway, whatever works.
-
I'm personally inclined towards a more chord based approach for soloing and writing music (not just jazz, in fact), but I also want to have my scales down.
When I say constructing scales, I mean taking the seven letters of the musical alphabet and knowing which flats or sharps to add, etc. Knowing that G Major has a sharp F as compared to C, etc.
Specifically with regards to Reg's scale fingerings, though, I want to know if I should practice them in all 12 keys, or in just the one until I've got them together. I definitely want to know more stuff than that, but I don't know how to express it right, is all.
-
I took the approach mentioned in another thread of doing a key per day, at least for technical stuff, like scales. Also, Reg has always talked about G being the starting reference. So, if I am addressing a new sequence or scale type, I'll often start with G. Seems to make sense. Originally Posted by Shadow of the Sun
-
A key per day works.
Also, I think, four keys works
Not JUST four keys, or four keys forever, but four keys. Say, C, G, F, and Eb. If you can play something in those four keys, playing it in any other one is (most likely) going to be a matter of shifting around fingerings you're already learned.
If you look at Reg's fingerings in G, to play them in Ab or Gb would be a matter of moving up or back one fret. It would be the same sequence of shapes in pretty-much the same positions.
But C is different. You would probably start on the G7 (V of C), then Am, then Bbm7b5, then C at the 8th fret. (You could start on the F at fret one for the four chord, but that would require playing some strings open.)
For Eb, you'd have the low E root of the I chord at the 11th fret. You would have the rest of the key (F- G- Ab Bb7 C- Dm7b5) before you got to it. Actually, you might want to start with G- at the 3rd fret and add the F at the 13th to avoid open strings...
If you get those four keys solid, none of the rest should present a serious challenge.
-
Yea... I'm a chord guy, every note has a reference with harmony. If for example I'm thinking Cmaj7... and I'm in say 4th Position... and I'm hearing a "B" on high E string on 7th fret.
So I might play.... see pdf #123
And what I'm playing... is from the fretboard becoming.... all my fingerings... but now with 8th fret, 6th string "C" as my basic reference. I'm playing a basic VI-or A- arpeggio from the 6th fingering of my major scales, and the fingering would be from the organization of Cmaj starting point. What happens is all the fingering, all 7 positions become one complete fingering, a 12 fret pattern with 7 basic positions from each scale degrees...that repeats.
It's the same with Melodic and Harmonic minors etc... Each degree of all scales or arpeggios has a chord reference.
So I'm hearing a lead note of B, 8th fret on the 1st string, and I'm going to use that "B" as my target note, and I approach that target with an A- chord, but still with C maj as my tonal reference. I didn't play the F nat. Because I'm leaving my options open.... maybe I want to modal interchange to A- dorian, create a micro target which could have different relationships to develop... all still with "Cmaj" as my Tonal reference.
And the fretboard... which for me is always just one big fingering, can change anytime I choose. That A-7 can become any A- , and I can also add new relationships, subs, modal interchange, use modal concepts, blue notes, Melodic minor.
Carol thinks basic chords and cycles.... because that's the way she plays. She is a bassist right.
Once you understand that the Guitar is a 12 fret repeating pattern, and you understand the organization of using fingerings that are based on that concept.... once you get one key down.... it just become learning how to navigate around the Guitar. Whatever you skip will just come back to screw you latter... you'll hit wall etc..
I never practiced all keys of anything.... I can play any tune in any key because I understand the music, not because I've practiced all tunes in all keys.
It's not that much technical BS to get together. Not getting technique together is usually because you don't understand what your trying to get together.
-
As Mark is saying.... you use a few keys to get past, learning how to understand how the fretboard repeats. Most guitarist learn two versions... say G and C and learn to understand how the pattern moves up and down the fretboard.
You develop a somewhat mechanical pattern that shifts... the 12 fret thing.... I generally think in chords also... diatonic chords... with references. You should also be aware of what the notes are... I can hear a single note C or a chordal C, Cmaj7, C13 etc... Just because I'm using mechanical.... doesn't imply... you don't hear what your playing. I'm very mechanical... but I can hear and feel... play with as much feeling as anyone. It's not one or the other. It's as much as you have the time for... with balance to reflect where you want to get...
If I'm playing Cma7 ionian... and that is my Tonal reference.... I'm always aware of the other diatonic chords
Cmaj7
D-7
E-7 etc... and all chord tones and extensions, all the notes
And if that Cmaj7 becomes a IV chord, my fretboard becomes Cmaj7 Lydian... which is the same fretboard as Gmaj7 of which Cmaj7 Lydian is the IV7 chord.
And if that Cmaj7 chord becomes Cmaj7#5 from Melodic Minor, the bIII chord. The fretboard changes again.
This is all basic 1st level being aware of what your playing. Three basic scales with three sets of diatonic chords constructed from the scales.
This is the basic starting references. There is more, Harm. Maj, symmetrical etc... but the rest becomes easy when you get the basics together. I'm only talking about three scales and 21 chords.
After you get this... you can begin creating relationships with different types of organization. Not just what Cmaj7 is... what it can be.
I'll put some examples up with tunes... that seems to work well with most.
-
Hey, Reg. I've been doing a good bit of using MM off of basic dominant relationships of chords and their extended diatonic subs. I'd like to be more systematic about this, eventually. I often ponder this notion of doing the math: "all the ways of getting from Dbm7 to Cm7" etc., the way you talked about in that other thread. :-)
Always enjoy your processes on things like this.
Reply With Quote
Neural DSP plugin 50% sale... Tone King Imperial...
Yesterday, 11:03 PM in For Sale