Fretboard Note Location

[KennyH]

Does anyone here have a surefire system to learn all the notes on the fretboard so that note identification is automatic... especially on strings 2 through 5? Since 1st and 6th string notes location are self evident, I don't need to learn those. My goal is to be able to place my fretting fingers on any string anywhere on the fretboard and know what notes are there automatically without thinking about it, as I can do on the 1st and 6th strings.
Looking forward to some interesting suggestions... and thanks!

[Nuff Said]

Does anyone here have a surefire system to learn all the notes on the fretboard so that note identification is automatic... especially on strings 2 through 5? Since 1st and 6th string notes location are self evident, I don't need to learn those. My goal is to be able to place my fretting fingers on any string anywhere on the fretboard and know what notes are there automatically without thinking about it, as I can do on the 1st and 6th strings.
Looking forward to some interesting suggestions... and thanks!

Yes, you are very lucky because there is a great opportunity to work through the Leavitt "A Modern Method for Guitar Vol. 1" book with the group on this forum:

https://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/getti...ead-index.html

This is a great opportunity and if you complete the books you'll know all the notes on the fretboard.
Nuff

[mike g]

You can try playing major scales on a single string. Name the notes as you go along. Start with Cmaj on the 2nd string, 1st fret and go from there.

Another method is to name the notes in your chord "grips".

Hope this helps

[JakeAcci]

Would highly recommend this: Jazz Science | Practice Ideas From the Woodshed

[RyanM]

This is what working on sight reading is supposed to do for you.

[KennyH]

Yes, you are very lucky because there is a great opportunity to work through the Leavitt "A Modern Method for Guitar Vol. 1" book with the group on this forum:

https://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/getti...ead-index.html

This is a great opportunity and if you complete the books you'll know all the notes on the fretboard.
Nuff

Nuff Said,

I like the organized disciplined approach and others have recommended the Leavitt Method so I will give it a fair try.
Any idea on a normative learning curve for this to stick?
In a scattered hesitant way I can now name most of the notes, I just want it more reflexive.
Anyway, I appreciate the suggestion and thanks.

KennyH

[KennyH]

Would highly recommend this: Jazz Science | Practice Ideas From the Woodshed

JakeAcci,

I think the follow-up visual is worth the whole explanation... that's a great way to see the fretboard. thanks!

KennyH

[pantz]

Play everything through the circle of fifths (fourths), acknowledging each key you're in rather than just mechanically moving to the next spot on the fretboard. That helped me.

[mr. beaumont]

I learned using the CAGED octave shapes (although we didn't use that word CAGED back when I was learning)

Make games of it...flashcards...set a timer...it's one of those things that if you spend a half hour a day on it EVERY day you can have it licked in a few months...but you've got to do it...

[RyanM]

Maybe try this too... every day (or every week, etc.) pick just one note, starting with C... and find it in every octave on every string. Make sure you really know it everywhere, then move on to another note.

[KennyH]

I learned using the CAGED octave shapes (although we didn't use that word CAGED back when I was learning)

Make games of it...flashcards...set a timer...it's one of those things that if you spend a half hour a day on it EVERY day you can have it licked in a few months...but you've got to do it...

mr. beaumont,

I'm not quite sure what you mean by CAGED octave shapes.
I know the chord shapes for CAGED. (In other words, I know how to make the same chord in the five shapes given on the fretboard) What do you mean by octave? How does that help in learning all the notes on the fretboard?
KennyH

[gingerjazz]

I know Mr B will be better at explaining this than me as he is much more articulate but i will give it a go.If you know all the notes on the fifth and sixth string,any other note on any other string can be related back to the fifth and sixth string by using octaves.So for example any note on the fourth string is the same as a note on the sixth string two frets lower,eg. the note G on the fourth string 5th fret is the same as G on the sixth string third fret.The same relationship is true between the third and fifth string.As you said the first string notes are the same as the sixth string notes,so that only leave the second string where the notes relate to the fifth string but two frets higher this time eg.C note first fret second string is the same as fifth string third fret.This is so much simpler to show someone on the guitar than it is to describe on here.But in simple terms if you know your octave relationships between the strings it becomes quite easy to relate any noe on the fretboard to the fifth or sixth strings.Hope this helps and does not confuse you even more,if it does we had better call for backup in the form of Mr B,to the batphone robin.Peace.

[KennyH]

I know Mr B will be better at explaining this than me as he is much more articulate but i will give it a go.If you know all the notes on the fifth and sixth string,any other note on any other string can be related back to the fifth and sixth string by using octaves.So for example any note on the fourth string is the same as a note on the sixth string two frets lower,eg. the note G on the fourth string 5th fret is the same as G on the sixth string third fret.The same relationship is true between the third and fifth string.As you said the first string notes are the same as the sixth string notes,so that only leave the second string where the notes relate to the fifth string but two frets higher this time eg.C note first fret second string is the same as fifth string third fret.This is so much simpler to show someone on the guitar than it is to describe on here.But in simple terms if you know your octave relationships between the strings it becomes quite easy to relate any noe on the fretboard to the fifth or sixth strings.Hope this helps and does not confuse you even more,if it does we had better call for backup in the form of Mr B,to the batphone robin.Peace.

Hi gingerjazz,

I pretty much get the octave movement of notes (each note on a string... its octave 12 frets apart and I get the two fret movement of notes from strings 6 to 4 and 5 to 3 and the one step back on the string 2.)
For me, the problem is when playing, how quickly the fretboard can become invisible on the inside strings. My goal is for note recognition on the inside strings to become as reflexively easy as on string 1 & 6.
I guess what I am looking for are practical exercises that with repetition will make this automatic.
Anyway thanks for the suggestion, be well and play well.
KennyH

[mr. beaumont]

mr. beaumont,

I'm not quite sure what you mean by CAGED octave shapes.
I know the chord shapes for CAGED. (In other words, I know how to make the same chord in the five shapes given on the fretboard) What do you mean by octave? How does that help in learning all the notes on the fretboard?
KennyH

Well, in each CAGED shape the root note occurs on different sytrings, it takes a certain shape...there's no real trick to learning the fretboard, you work and visualize and eventually it's there...

try the flashcards...write out all your notes, including enharmonmics, one per card...set a timer...draw a card, give yourself say, 30 seconds, to find as many of that note on the fretboard...then repeat...

[eddy b.]

Hey Kenny H. You also may want to name the notes in the chord grips you are using. Also The George Van Epps Guitar Metod book which makes you play triads all up and down the neck in all keys is really helpful especially if you go slow and name the notes you are playing.

[KennyH]

You can try playing major scales on a single string. Name the notes as you go along. Start with Cmaj on the 2nd string, 1st fret and go from there.

Another method is to name the notes in your chord "grips".

Hope this helps

Mike,

The single string scale notes location/identification sounds intriging.
Is this the way you learn them?

[JonR]

There are a few different methods which can all support one another.

1. You know the open string notes, right? EADGBE . You know the C major scale formula, right? WWHWWWH, which means 2 frets between every pair of notes except E-F and B-C, which are 1 fret apart.
That means you can work out any note on any string on any fret, just by working up note by note from zero.
Eg, what's the note on the 8th fret on the D string?

0  1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8
 |---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
D  .   E   F   .   G   .   A   .   B

It's the note between A and B, so A# or Bb. (Most likely Bb if it's jazz! )

2. This can be combined with the major-scale-of-each-string mike g mentions. So, here's the D major scale on the D string:

0  1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10  11  12
 |---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
D  .   E   .   F#  G   .   A   .   B   .   C#  D
   W       W     H     W       W       W     H

3. The CAGED system. This is the idea that every major chord can be played with 5 different shapes, using movable verions of the open shapes for C, A, G, E and D, and in that order up the neck. Different chords begin with a different shape at the bottom of the neck, but the shapes always run C-A-G-E-D-C-A-G... etc.
You need to know the notes in each chord for this to help you best, and which notes are root, 3rd and 5th (but you should know that anyway...).

Take the F major chord, which begins with an "E" shape on 1st fret:

F MAJOR CHORDS
    ________  __________         _______  ___________  
   /E shape \/ D shape  \       /A shape\/ G shape   \        
0   1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9  10  11  12  13  14  15
 ||-F-|---|---|---|-A-|---|---|-C-|---|---|---|---|-F-|---|---|
 ||-C-|---|---|---|---|-F-|---|---|---|-A-|---|---|-C-|---|---|
 ||---|-A-|---|---|-C-|---|---|---|---|-F-|---|---|---|-A-|---|
 ||---|---|-F-|---|---|---|-A-|---|---|-C-|---|---|---|---|-F-|
 ||---|---|-C-|---|---|---|---|-F-|---|---|---|-A-|---|---|-C-|
 ||-F-|---|---|---|---|---|---|-C-|---|---|---|---|-F-|---|---|
                   \___C shape___/                 \_E shape_/

Try this for C and G chords (5 shapes each, the same 5 shapes in a different order), and you will have every C major scale note on the neck.

4. Add in the octave patterns mentioned above, and you see how each of these systems backs up the others. Any one of these methods will get you there. But all 3 (and there may be others) will get you there quicker!

[KennyH]

Well, in each CAGED shape the root note occurs on different sytrings, it takes a certain shape...there's no real trick to learning the fretboard, you work and visualize and eventually it's there...

try the flashcards...write out all your notes, including enharmonmics, one per card...set a timer...draw a card, give yourself say, 30 seconds, to find as many of that note on the fretboard...then repeat...

mr. beaumont,

Thanks.. I think the disciplined half-hour focus everyday on quick note recognition with the flash cards may do the trick.
I pretty much use the CAGED shape prompting to find my chords now.
Appreciate the suggestion.. take care, be well, and play well.

KennyH

[KennyH]

There are a few different methods which can all support one another.

1. You know the open string notes, right? EADGBE . You know the C major scale formula, right? WWHWWWH, which means 2 frets between every pair of notes except E-F and B-C, which are 1 fret apart.
That means you can work out any note on any string on any fret, just by working up note by note from zero.
Eg, what's the note on the 8th fret on the D string?

0  1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8
 |---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
D  .   E   F   .   G   .   A   .   B

It's the note between A and B, so A# or Bb. (Most likely Bb if it's jazz! )

2. This can be combined with the major-scale-of-each-string mike g mentions. So, here's the D major scale on the D string:

0  1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10  11  12
 |---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
D  .   E   .   F#  G   .   A   .   B   .   C#  D
   W       W     H     W       W       W     H

3. The CAGED system. This is the idea that every major chord can be played with 5 different shapes, using movable verions of the open shapes for C, A, G, E and D, and in that order up the neck. Different chords begin with a different shape at the bottom of the neck, but the shapes always run C-A-G-E-D-C-A-G... etc.
You need to know the notes in each chord for this to help you best, and which notes are root, 3rd and 5th (but you should know that anyway...).

Take the F major chord, which begins with an "E" shape on 1st fret:

F MAJOR CHORDS
    ________  __________         _______  ___________  
   /E shape \/ D shape  \       /A shape\/ G shape   \        
0   1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9  10  11  12  13  14  15
 ||-F-|---|---|---|-A-|---|---|-C-|---|---|---|---|-F-|---|---|
 ||-C-|---|---|---|---|-F-|---|---|---|-A-|---|---|-C-|---|---|
 ||---|-A-|---|---|-C-|---|---|---|---|-F-|---|---|---|-A-|---|
 ||---|---|-F-|---|---|---|-A-|---|---|-C-|---|---|---|---|-F-|
 ||---|---|-C-|---|---|---|---|-F-|---|---|---|-A-|---|---|-C-|
 ||-F-|---|---|---|---|---|---|-C-|---|---|---|---|-F-|---|---|
                   \___C shape___/                 \_E shape_/

Try this for C and G chords (5 shapes each, the same 5 shapes in a different order), and you will have every C major scale note on the neck.

4. Add in the octave patterns mentioned above, and you see how each of these systems backs up the others. Any one of these methods will get you there. But all 3 (and there may be others) will get you there quicker!

JonR.

Appreciate your suggestions.
I will be using the best of what fellow musicians have offered (you included)as is practicable.
Thanks again,

KennyH

[mike g]

Mike,

The single string scale notes location/identification sounds intriging.
Is this the way you learn them?

Many moons ago yes, that was one of the ways. Kinda simple but if you do one string at a time it's not too overwhelming. It also takes away the "pattern playing" aspect of guitar players.
Another way was to pick one note, any note, and play that note wherever you can find it on any string, any fret. Play it as quarter notes just randomly jumping from say G to G to G wherever a G may be. Start slowly and see how it goes.

Hope this helps

[Reg]

All of the methods or systems should eventually...get to that point where you don't need a system to know the fretboard... they're all tools to help you get to that point.
The differences in the different methods are in that period of getting to that end or fretboard enlightenment... Sorry not really funny...
Caged systems makes you sound and think as open string guitar player or what ever structures you use....while your learning the fretboard... your references are guitar chords. Not good or bad... just be aware of the implications... very easy to recognize. And if you don't get to that point or the goal or end result... your natural sound or style of playing will reflect your learning method...this same principle applies to Levitt and any other method.
I'm bringing this up because many guitar players...Don't reach the end or goal of the system...
Reg

[JonR]

I'm bringing this up because many guitar players...Don't reach the end or goal of the system...
Reg

"It's about the journey, not the destination" ...

[KennyH]

All of the methods or systems should eventually...get to that point where you don't need a system to know the fretboard... they're all tools to help you get to that point.
The differences in the different methods are in that period of getting to that end or fretboard enlightenment... Sorry not really funny...
Caged systems makes you sound and think as open string guitar player or what ever structures you use....while your learning the fretboard... your references are guitar chords. Not good or bad... just be aware of the implications... very easy to recognize. And if you don't get to that point or the goal or end result... your natural sound or style of playing will reflect your learning method...this same principle applies to Levitt and any other method.
I'm bringing this up because many guitar players...Don't reach the end or goal of the system...
Reg

Reg,

I'm pretty much stubbornly diligent, so once I find a method and I see I am making progress with it, however slowly it might be, I persevere.
I'll probably go primarily with the Leavitt Method so I can combine learnig how to sight read as well as learn the fretboard.
Thanks for the fair warning about needing to sustain discipline.

KennyH