Conrad Cork's "Harmony with LEGO Bricks"

[Rich Cochrane]

Does anyone here have a view on this book? I have a copy but haven't really worked with it. I feel as if it might contain some great information, and I really like the guy's style, but I find the weird terminology a bit offputting.

I'm trying to build a bit more changes playing into my practice time (which is partly why I'm here) and could do with brushing up on jazz-specific harmony. I have some more staid stuff to work with but this one looks... different.

[gersdal]

You guessed right (in the other thread) and I worked quite a bit with this book and I like it a lot. He´s pretty anti intellectual (and I love that) and you have to accept that - at least for the time your studying the book I guess :-)

Conrad Cork´s main issue with the lego bricks is remembering tunes, and there is a newer book that is a very good companion (I´ll check the authors name and get back to you).

My view on the lego bricks is that they are very good tools for practicing improvisation also. If you know how to deal with most of the bricks, you can deal with most of the tunes also.

I prefer names like ii-V-I and such to the names that Cork is using, but it is the same thing anyway.

If you want to do this thread as a study group on Conrad Cork I´ll join in :-)

[Rich Cochrane]

Conrad Cork´s main issue with the lego bricks is remembering tunes

This is my #1 problem as well.

If you want to do this thread as a study group on Conrad Cork I´ll join in :-)

I'd be up for that! Til about the 23rd I'll be in and out of town & might not have my guitar to hand but could maybe start then?

[jsepguitar]

Conrad Cork´s main issue with the lego bricks is remembering tunes, and there is a newer book that is a very good companion (I´ll check the authors name and get back to you).

I'm guessing the book you are thinking about is "Insights in Jazz" by John Elliott.

That author also has a number of podcasts you can listen to --->Dropback.co.uk Podcasts

There is also a Google Group called Jazz Harmony Lego Bricks which discusses the method.

Bob Keller's jazz page also has some good Lego resources...
http://www.cs.hmc.edu/~keller/jazz/

[gersdal]

I'm guessing the book you are thinking about is "Insights in Jazz" by John Elliott.

That author also has a number of podcasts you can listen to --->Dropback.co.uk Podcasts

There is also a Google Group called Jazz Harmony Lego Bricks which discusses the method.

Bob Keller's jazz page also has some good Lego resources...
Bob Keller's Jazz Page

Correct. Thanks. I´ve got the podcasts somewhere ...

[fep]

Are you aware of this book:

Amazon.com: Hearin' the Changes: Dealing with Unknown Tunes by Ear: Jerry Coker, Bob Knapp, Larry Vincent: Books

There was mention of both books over here:

The New Guide to Harmony with LEGO Bricks - Jazz Bulletin Board

It appears that both of these books do the same basic thing.

Which do you like better?

At first blush I'd go for the Jerry Coker book based on the authors reputation and that he's using common musical lingo.

Lego bricks, a clever marketing slogan, but I don't see any reason to learn new terms that aren't used by other musicians.

If the term 'Bebop Turnaround' (which is used in Coker's book) is the term that has been around a long time why would I want to use some other term or concept to describe that progression?

I don't have the Lego Bricks book, it's really expensive. Please correct me if I'm wrong with my assumptions.

[Rich Cochrane]

Thanks for these -- the podcasts look useful for learning tunes away from the instrument, too.

I also found this, which contains analyses of a lot of tunes done in the Cork style: http://www.cs.hmc.edu/~keller/jazz/InsightsRoadmapsConsolidated.pdf

fep -- yeah, these books are quite expensive. That's going to stop me picking up Elliott's book for now, but I think the link above and the podcasts give enough of an idea of how it works. And I'd like to get a look at Coker's book, too. Maybe I'll try to source both through my local library.

Honestly, from what I've seen so far I'm not sure this is revolutionary stuff. We all knew to attack a ii-V-I as a single entity, right? But knowing more of these "building blocks" of standard tunes and how they're typically connected would be useful, at least for me as someone who doesn't work with these types of songs too often.

Anyway, I'm up for giving Cork's book a read-through in a couple of weeks' time and seeing how it turns out.

[gersdal]

I don't know the Jerry Coker book, but I'm quite found of the Lego brick thing. I don't think you should be concerned about it being a "clever marketing slogan" with no content. That is absolutely a wrong assuption in my opinion, but let's see how things go.

I'll fill you inn with some additional information from John Elliot, and I wouldn't be surprised if John Elliot himself joins in as well (I may drop him a note telling him what we're up to if not).

Whenever you are ready, Rich.

[paynow]

Question. What do the Legos have to do with it? Are you actually using Lego bricks or is it some sort of euphemism/concept?

I've been trying to figure that out via the web and various links, but can't find a clear answer.

[gersdal]

Question. What do the Legos have to do with it? Are you actually using Lego bricks or is it some sort of euphemism/concept?

No, Lego has nothing to do with it. I normally just call it bricks or elements, but I guess other names would be just as good.

If you look at a typical jazz tune it consists of a lot of standard elements like ii-V-I (in C that would be Dm-G7-Cmaj7), turnarounds (E7-A7-D7-G7) and such. Identifying these elements (bricks) is helpful in remembering the tunes, and when improvising.

The layout of a song after analysis would then look something like (without all the text to explain what the various parts are):

(image from John Elliott http://dropback.co.uk/images/paste.jpg)

An when you get familiar with the names and such it could help a lot in remembering the tune and playing the tune.

[paynow]

Thanks Gersdal. Interesting concept. I figured it wasn't literal, but wanted to be sure.

[whatswisdom]

Interesting concept. I figured it wasn't literal...

I don't think it tries to reinvent the wheel. Standard musical practices and jazz theory are intact. I think there's a section called the "Giant Steps Board Game" where the progression is taught in a fun and interesting way.

[fep]

No, Lego has nothing to do with it. I normally just call it bricks or elements, but I guess other names would be just as good.

If you look at a typical jazz tune it consists of a lot of standard elements like ii-V-I (in C that would be Dm-G7-Cmaj7), turnarounds (E7-A7-D7-G7) and such. Identifying these elements (bricks) is helpful in remembering the tunes, and when improvising.

The layout of a song after analysis would then look something like (without all the text to explain what the various parts are):

(image from John Elliott http://dropback.co.uk/images/paste.jpg)

An when you get familiar with the names and such it could help a lot in remembering the tune and playing the tune.

Thanks Gersdel,

That is really nice layout. Similar in concept to 'Hearing the Changes" but the diagram is more visual. I don't recognize the terms as being the same for the most part, except for CESH which is chromatic embellishment of static harmony.

[jaelliott]

Hi chaps

As suggested, thought I would add my two pennyworth!

Please don't get hung up on the terminology. The real benefit is from knowing what the common bricks are in jazz standards and equally important where they occur and how they are used in the song structure.

There are lots of free resources as already mentioned. There are the podcasts and the there is the Google Group for discussing the method first described by Cork in his book and extended by me in my book.

There is an overview of the approach on my website: Dropback.co.uk Home.

One correction. My book is not expensive. It can be bought as PDF from my website for £12. It contains 238 roadmaps of standards and explains all the bricks and joins. When you are learning a brick or a join, you can electronically search through the songs to see where it occurs in the repertoire.

Where the method is better than Coker's book is that it gives names to the common elements. Coker's approach is mainly Roman Numeral based and does not show many songs at all. Leaving the majority of the work to the reader.

I'd be very happy to answer any questions. Preferably on the Google Group which is intended for discussing the method. The Group is open to all and members are always willing to help beginners.

best regards

John

[jaelliott]

This might also be of interest. http://www.dropback.co.uk/files/memory%20and%20jazz.pdf

I compare memory techniques mentioned in a recent popular book and show how they relate to memorising jazz standard chord progressions. This basically shows how the LEGO approach works and that it is based upon what jazz expert players do anyway. It is just a means of helping you get there in one lifetime!

J

[gersdal]

One correction. My book is not expensive. It can be bought as PDF from my website for £12. It contains 238 roadmaps of standards and explains all the bricks and joins. When you are learning a brick or a join, you can electronically search through the songs to see where it occurs in the repertoire.

I do agree. The chord progressions and analysis is worth the price in itself, and the written text is very good and understandable.

I'd be very happy to answer any questions. Preferably on the Google Group which is intended for discussing the method. The Group is open to all and members are always willing to help beginners.

I fully understand that is would be preferable to have the discussion on the google group, but I guess a study group here for beginners may be good also. I'd love to see you contributing, but if we run into real problems I promise to post on the google group.

Thanks a lot for joining in, John.

[Rich Cochrane]

I know I started this thread and then disappeared for a bit -- it's my busiest time for work (exam time) so I'm still really too maxed out to start, but I'd like to start at least thinking about how to go about this.

I've been able to read through the book without playing, and I think what's going on is pretty clear: time to put it into practice!

I'd be quite interested to go at this by taking a tune like "Cherokee" and learning the bricks and joins that comprise it. I don't really care which tune we pick -- I'm terrible at remembering changes so anything will do me.

John / Gersdal / others with experience of working with this -- is that a good approach or do you recommend something else?

I'll probably be ready to make a start in another week or so. I haven't done one of these "study groups" on this board before so it would be good if someone whith experience of them could guide us :-)

[fep]

I'm going to buy the book. That diagram that Gersdal posted completely sold me.

This looks to be just what I need.

I'll participate in a study group either here or at the Google groups.

What are your thoughts on the two groups? I can't think of an advantage to having it here as opposed to the already established group.

[gersdal]

I suggest we start of here at JazzGuitar, and post in the google group if we run into troubles. I've subscribed for quite a while, and the google group is very good, but they are not a study group for beginners I'd say.

Second thing. I highly recommend buying John Elliots book "Insight in jazz" also. The analysis of hundreds of tunes alone are worth the price. Good changes for the tunes is also worth the price. And I must admit I understood Cork better by having both books.

If I should take the lead in this, since I've already used this book for a while, I'd suggest that we start reading Part V of Corks book (Section called "A kit of LEGO bricks to build songs with" if there are differences in different editions). This is getting us right in the middle of the essence in my opinion. Maybe we will have some loose ends by jumping in like this, but I guess it is worth trying.

[jster]

If the problem is memorizing tunes, I feel I should add my 2 cents. There is 2500 year old literature for how to remember things. The so called "art of memory" is a set of related techniques. Not until this thread had I ever considered the problem from a musician's point of view. However, I have known people who have used these techniques in other areas with success and few complaints. People who can memorize pi to 1000 digits have no special brain cells but rather are typically competitive college kids who have spent a small amount of time getting good at one of these techniques. If you are a musician and this is a serious issue for you, then I would suggest you check out the literature. Perhaps the most popular method is the method of loci. Applied to music here's what you could do: Suppose you want to remember 10 Jobim tunes. Let's say each tune has 20 bricks or chords or whatever. Mentally chart a path through your hometown made up of 200 stops along the path. At each stop mentally put one of the bricks. So the bank on the corner is a turnaround and the pizza shop is an altered chord or whatever. Then you just remember the path and the associations. That is the idea of it. Then if you want to remember 10 Coltrane tunes, you could use a path through your house. The light on the ceiling is a E diminished, etc., etc. And remember how fortunate you are to be able to use these methods. There were times and places where proficiency at one of these methods might have got you burned at the stake for practicing witchcraft.

Art of memory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[fep]

I think the goal though is to identify these common progressions in jazz tunes, classify them in a way that makes sense, so you can identify them by ear. So you're not trying to identify/memorize individual notes or even chords, you're hearing much larger chunks of the song and are able to identify that as something you already know.

I don't think the goal is to memorize.

[fep]

I'm confused.

It seems like we're talking of two different books by two different authors.

But, this thread seems to discuss them interchangeable.

We mentioned that Conrad Corks book is expensive.

And then J. Elliott corrected that 'misconception' by saying his book is not expensive and is only 12 euros.

Elliott's book, Corks book, these are two different books, right?

Which book do we need, or do we need both, or is there only one?

Confusing.

[whatswisdom]

Elliott's book, Corks book, these are two different books, right?

Yes. Check out the contents of Elliott's book. Looks worth it:
http://dropback.co.uk/files/Contents.pdf

[oldane]

I have both Conrad Corks book and John Elliotts later book.

Conrad Cork uses a lot of words and takes some detours whereas John Elliott is more consise and to the point. What one wants is a matter of taste, but Cork has quite a few points in those detours.

I like the concept very much. What's not to like about being able to recognice the ever so often repeating building blocks of the standard tunes? One thing I am a little hesitant about is the ideosyncratic naming of the "bricks" which is understood by nobody who hasn't studied the Lego system. But OTOH, there has never been any real consensus on naming harmonic building blocks, and if one wants to put them into a system, one has to call them something, so......

In another post there was mentioned something about "marketing gimmic" or something like that. That's definitely not true. Both Conrad Cork and John Elliott are deadly serious about this attempt to assist working jazz musicians. In fact I think Conrad Cork has thrown money after his Lego project. When I bought my sample of his book, it said that I could just send him an e-mail and he'd send me a CD with recorded examples of the various "bricks". And so he did. At his expense and with a little personally signed letter from him. He doesn't offer this any longer as he is an elderly man who has to care of his health, but I think they can be downloaded from somewhere instead. John Elliott spends countless hours answering questions for free at his Yahoo discussion group.

[gersdal]

I'm confused. It seems like we're talking of two different books by two different authors. But, this thread seems to discuss them interchangeable. We mentioned that Conrad Corks book is expensive. And then J. Elliott corrected that 'misconception' by saying his book is not expensive and is only 12 euros. Elliott's book, Corks book, these are two different books, right?
Which book do we need, or do we need both, or is there only one? Confusing.

Sorry. I did not intend to cause confusion. In my opinion they belong together, but the idea here was to study Conrad Cork's book. And I've suggested that we start at part V.