Transcribing

**LvJz** · 03-06-2012, 08:17 AM

Hey sup!

I'm sure there are loads of threads with this title so apologies in advance. But here goes...

I'm currently *attempting* to transcribe D Natural Blues by Wes Montgomery.

Now, it's taken me about 15 minutes to transcribe the first 10 seconds! 1:33 to 1:45 ish. For it to take this long, is that pretty lousy?

I must say, I have learnt a lot already from just this much and want to improve my jazz soloing and improvisation.

if there's one way to get inside the head of a player, it's to transcribe, no?

I'm not notating it as I go, I can keep it all in my ear, which is no surprise since I've pressed pause and rewind about 20 times lol!

So, my initial question; Is it normal to take this long transcribing?!

**gersdal** · 03-06-2012, 09:40 AM

If this is the first solo you transcribe, I'd say that is pretty good. My first attempts was caotic and disasterous

. I'm still not very good, but I'm improving every time ...

Buying the program Transcribe! did help me a lot.

Originally Posted by LvJz

Hey sup!

I'm sure there are loads of threads with this title so apologies in advance. But here goes...

I'm currently *attempting* to transcribe D Natural Blues by Wes Montgomery.

Now, it's taken me about 15 minutes to transcribe the first 10 seconds! 1:33 to 1:45 ish. For it to take this long, is that pretty lousy?

I must say, I have learnt a lot already from just this much and want to improve my jazz soloing and improvisation.

if there's one way to get inside the head of a player, it's to transcribe, no?

I'm not notating it as I go, I can keep it all in my ear, which is no surprise since I've pressed pause and rewind about 20 times lol!

So, my initial question; Is it normal to take this long transcribing?!

**JonR** · 03-06-2012, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by LvJz

Hey sup!

I'm sure there are loads of threads with this title so apologies in advance. But here goes...

I'm currently *attempting* to transcribe D Natural Blues by Wes Montgomery.

Now, it's taken me about 15 minutes to transcribe the first 10 seconds! 1:33 to 1:45 ish. For it to take this long, is that pretty lousy?

15 minutes for 10 seconds is not too bad, IMO.
I don't normally time my transcriptions (it varies so much depending on the complexity of the tune and how much of it I want), but I often take a couple of hours or more for one tune. That could be a short tune including everything (vocal, chords, bass, any distinctive other instrumental parts, maybe the main solo), or a longer tune where I just go for the lead part -melody and including maybe several choruses of solo.

Originally Posted by LvJz

I must say, I have learnt a lot already from just this much and want to improve my jazz soloing and improvisation.

if there's one way to get inside the head of a player, it's to transcribe, no?

Absolutely. In my experience it's much more about that, than about learning any general rules for jazz improvisation. The way different players approach the same tune can vary amazingly, as if they're thinking in a totally different, totally individual way.
But yes, you really do feel you've got inside the head of that particular player (at least where his head was at on that take on that tune on that day...).

Originally Posted by LvJz

I'm not notating it as I go, I can keep it all in my ear, which is no surprise since I've pressed pause and rewind about 20 times lol!

Ah, OK, mine always includes writing it down. If you include actually learning to play it too - committing it to memory through repetition (on your instrument) - that's bound to take longer.

Like gersdal I use Transcribe. Instead of "pause and rewind", it's "select and loop"

(and maybe slow down, and maybe raise the octave to get the bass). And I notate it in Sibelius. (Unless I really only want the chords, when I might just use old-fashioned pen and paper... I never notate by hand any more.)

**M-ster** · 03-06-2012, 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by LvJz

... So, my initial question; Is it normal to take this long transcribing?!

It takes you as long as it takes you. If you're learning and benefitting from it, don't concern yourself with the time it takes. It's not a race, don't worry.

**LvJz** · 03-07-2012, 11:35 AM

Thanks guys!

Alright, yeah I guess I shouldn't worry about the time it takes, and be confident in my ability to do this stuff and not worry about other ppl.

Definitely going to invest in Transcribe!

Jon, you know I appreciate your great replies, you always cover everything.

TY

**JazzVocab** · 03-07-2012, 11:46 AM

I did a blog post about this a couple of years ago, maybe it'll help someone.
How to transcribe… aswas

**smokinguit** · 03-07-2012, 03:04 PM

It doesn't matter how long in the beginning. But one thing I think you should work on is ear training in conjunction with transribe. I know transcribing is ear training, but you need to isolate the intervals and learn them, really learn them, separately. I would say limit yourself to no more than 2 intervals, descending and ascending, per week. I say start with the perfect intervals (perfect fourth, perfect fifth, and octave).

Another thing: my jazz guitar teacher used to tell me last year "don't hunt and peck" as you transcribe. In other words, when you are transcribing a phrase you have to learn to recognized the intervalic relationship between notes. He does it almost automatically. I'm not there yet, but I am improving everyday. You can "hunt and peck" for now, but keep this point in mind as you progress.

Also, after using transcribe for a year, my singing ability and range has developed astronomically. Its probably a genetic thing for me, but make sure you sing EVERYTHING you hear. It's hard at first, but it can be done. If you can sing it, at least reasonably, you will hear and play it quickly.

**cosmic gumbo** · 03-08-2012, 03:17 AM

Transcribing for guitar is always tough because there are multiple ways of navigating the same passage. It takes as long as it takes, but you always profit from it.

**dkleijn** · 03-10-2012, 02:55 AM

check this transcription of wes's blue 'n boogie, it's so swinging!!

http://daankleijn.com/wp-content/upl...omery-solo.pdf

**davelang** · 03-11-2012, 05:27 PM

I'm not notating it as I go.

Hi I'm new here and definitely no expert but I've learned a lot by writing out my transcriptions into notation software, especially in the areas of sight reading and knowing what rhythms I'm playing. Also helps me understand what the soloist was doing if I'm looking at that part of a tune.

Plus when I get the computer to play back what I've written I know if I transcribed it correctly.

Not saying anything wrong with the way you're doing it, just my perspective on my experience.

Good luck!

ps - don't sweat how long it takes - you'll get faster the more you do it.

**mr. beaumont** · 03-11-2012, 05:54 PM

Transcribing wes for your first transcription? Not easy...take your time.

**=DK=** · 04-09-2012, 08:39 PM

D Natural Blues? That was my first transcription, too! We can share notes.

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Transcribing wes for your first transcription? Not easy...take your time.

What's a good track to start with, then? What do y'all think? Give me some examples.

**JakeAcci** · 04-09-2012, 08:45 PM

Originally Posted by =DK=

What's a good track to start with, then? What do y'all think? Give me some examples.

I've got you under my skin - Jim Hall

Just Friends - Pat Martino (fast to play, but it is simple and the vocab still works slower)

Autumn Leaves - K Jarrett

**JakeAcci** · 04-09-2012, 08:45 PM

PS I often skip the double time parts of solos.

Nuff Said · 04-17-2012, 09:32 AM

When I was a teenager, everyone I knew always learn't songs from playing the record over and over. This was before "Guitar Tab" got popular.

But, I think my first Jazz transcript was:
Miles Davis: "So What"

This "Slow Down" software helps:
Seventh String Software - the home of Transcribe!

Nuff

**S_R_S5** · 04-18-2012, 02:17 AM

BestPractice - Download.com

This is what I use. It slows or speeds up the recording. It can also change pitch so if you want to transcribe someone who tunes down a half step. (Yngwie malmsteen and SRV both tune to Eb) It is free.

**JonR** · 04-18-2012, 08:53 AM

Originally Posted by =DK=

What's a good track to start with, then? What do y'all think? Give me some examples.

I'd do as Wes himself did, and start with Charlie Christian.
Apparently, transcribing CC taught Wes all he knew....

I also agree with davelang you should notate it out (not just tab it) - to make sure you get the rhythms as well as the notes right. Or use some kind of tab where you can clearly specify timing.
Of course, you can't exactly notate jazz rhythmic feel, the way notes are timed and placed can be more important than their pitches.

If you can get it just by listening and copying (playing along), then that's fine - and you're doing well if you can get it exactly right. But that requires a lot more memorization, if you're not writing anything, or tabbing anything. Notation is better than tab for helping you actually study what's going on; IOW it's more useful for learning how and why the solo works. I always find it helps to see it on the page.

Of course, you shouldn't go in the other direction and just notate it (and not bother to try playing it)! It's a 50/50 balance between getting the feel and shapes under your fingers, and understanding the thinking behind it.
(As long as you get a good grasp of both, then complete note-for-note accuracy is not critical, IMO. Remember the orginal player would have played it different next time, even on the next take. So there's nothing special about THIS solo, in its details - it's the principles that matter.)