Harmonizing a melody

[jster]

I still like my E7 E7 A7 A7 -- I mean, the thing is mainly A minor pent.

Big Daddy, what about the four downward notes? The heart of the melody is really just four (doubled) notes: E D C B. Don't you want to somehow capture that?

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

I recorded Big Daddy's progressions with the melody, here they are:

BD1 - Am7 G7sus4 Fmaj7#11 %

Harmonizing Melody BD1 Compressed.mp3 - File Shared from Box.net - Free Online File Storage

BD2 - E7 % A7 %

Harmonizing Melody BD2 Compressed.mp3 - File Shared from Box.net - Free Online File Storage

Hey thank's for pushing the "bluesy" button for #2!

[brwnhornet59]

That was awesome Fep!!! Thanks for taking the time to do that.

I look forward to the next progression.

[jster]

Kyyry, if they don't like your harmonization on the exam, bring it here and fep will give you a rendering that will sound great!

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Big Daddy, what about the four downward notes? The heart of the melody is really just four (doubled) notes: E D C B. Don't you want to somehow capture that?

The whole point to the blues is to ignore how the pentatonic box fits the chords.

I'm not to serious about the E7 % A7 % -- it was just a bit fun to fit against the mostly pentatonic melody.

[jster]

The whole point to the blues is to ignore how the pentatonic box fits the chords.

I'm not to serious about the E7 % A7 % -- it was just a bit fun to fit against the mostly pentatonic melody.

Please me more careful in the future! I take everything you guys say very seriously! Had me wondering whether I somehow misplayed the melody! lol.

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Please me more careful in the future! I take everything you guys say very seriously! Had me wondering whether I somehow misplayed the melody! lol.

One last time, looking at those key notes, measure by measure:

measure 1: E D over E7 -- chord tones, consonant
measure 2: D C over E7 -- more tension, the movement going to...
measure 3: C B over A7 -- hey, left me hanging with a 9th over A7! But I like it when a phrase doesn't have a strong ending. Then you're ready to start the next phrase. (If every phrase ended with the root note, for example, it would stop the onward flow.) And the B slips in there and jazzes up the minor pent feel.

[jster]

I look forward to the next progression.

I got a cool one for you guys. Maybe in a few days?

[brwnhornet59]

Lay it on us jster!!!!!

[jster]

OK, this is an old pre jazz melody. Try and give it a serious safe harmonization. You can try it either as a somber ballad or as something happy. Some of you may know it. If you do, don't tell the others. Let's see what the pros come up with! Hehe.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/402/tune1.png

Didn't let me insert the image. First time with Imageshack, sorry. Can you guys see that?

[fep]

Here's jster's image (under embed image you copy the forum link and past into your message):

[jster]

Thanks fep. I tried that I thought. But yeah, that's it. I was actually going to put this exact question to you guys someday but I saw this thread today, so here it is. Like I say, it is pre-jazz. Probably easiest to think of it as a ballad. I'll tell you more about it after you take a stab at it.

[jster]

Perhaps I should add feel free to treat it as a modal tune.

OK, it's getting late in my neck of the woods, but I'll tell you where the melody comes from tomorrow.

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Can we toss a few more melodies in? I'd love to see being given a jazz treatment. Yes, it's Bach. Think of it as a ballad by Wayne Shorter.

[fep]

Here's jster's image (under embed image you copy the forum link and past into your message):

Sure seems there is something pulling me away from simple towards unique.

| Bm11 | Bb7#11| Amaj7 | G/A A9 | D DmMaj7 | G7sus G7 | F#m7 E13 | Aadd9 A ||

[jster]

The melody is the oldest complete tune we have: The Song of Seikilos. Seikilos, a Greek musician who lived 1900 years ago in present day Turkey, had the melody and lyrics engraved on his tombstone.

Ὅσον ζῇς, φαίνου,
Hoson zês, phainou,
While you live, shine,

μηδὲν ὅλως σὺ λυποῦ·
mêden holôs su lupou;
don't suffer anything at all;

πρὸς ὀλίγον ἐστὶ τὸ ζῆν,
pros oligon esti to zên,
life exists only a short while,

τὸ τέλος ὁ xρόνος ἀπαιτεῖ.
to telos ho chronos apaitei.
and time demands its toll.

If you go to Copenhagen, you can see the cylindrical tombstone. You can see the melodic notation on the bottom half over the words. (Not sure why the museum mirror imaged the cylinder.)

http://www.nationalmuseet.dk/graphic...k/seikilos.jpg

I thought it would be interesting because Seikilos didn't provide a harmony for it. The melody can be tweaked a bit because it is determined by the time it takes to sing the words, i.e. poetic rather than musical meter.

[jster]

I almost wanted to play "On Broadway" behind it.

|A |A Asus|A |A G|A |A G|A |A (Em)|

[jster]

This thread is the first time I have ever harmonized a melody. I was hoping that one was more constrained in one's choices, but evidently there is a lot of freedom. Is that generally the way it is?

[Kyyry]

By looking at the music, the key of D-major would first come to mind, but the tonal center seems to be A, pointing towards A-mixolydian. It was kind of easy for the first 4 bars to find the basic progression with triads, in this case I-IV-I-V, last four bars are I-VI-IV-V-I
| A | D | A | Em | A | F#m | D E | A |
It would have sounded weird with the corresponding seventh chords. Also is it a big mistake to have the V chord be a minor chord? Even if it's the mixolydian mode?
Also: Is it allowed to make the basic progressions in modes like I did? I just treated the A in D-major key as the I and used the chords that I'd use with D-major and only starting from the A like: A Bmin C#m-5 D Em F#m G

[JonR]

The melody is the oldest complete tune we have: The Song of Seikilos. Seikilos, a Greek musician who lived 1900 years ago in present day Turkey, had the melody and lyrics engraved on his tombstone.
...
If you go to Copenhagen, you can see the cylindrical tombstone. You can see the melodic notation on the bottom half over the words. (Not sure why the museum mirror imaged the cylinder.)

http://www.nationalmuseet.dk/graphic...k/seikilos.jpg

That's interesting. Do you know how it's known how to translate that into modern notation? How do we know what pitches (or intervals) the letters referred to? Or indeed the metre? (All I can find on the net is assumptions that those notes are correct.)

I thought it would be interesting because Seikilos didn't provide a harmony for it.

Right - they didn't use harmony in those days. (I think we know that much at least )

The melody can be tweaked a bit because it is determined by the time it takes to sing the words, i.e. poetic rather than musical meter.

Sounds like a reasonable assumption.

[brwnhornet59]

I am getting something like this.
F#-/F#- B-/F#-/G

F#-/G/F#G/A

[JonR]

This thread is the first time I have ever harmonized a melody. I was hoping that one was more constrained in one's choices, but evidently there is a lot of freedom. Is that generally the way it is?

Depends. How jazzy do you want to get?

Basic harmonization follows fairly simple rules, but reharmonization is a popular game in jazz. Few jazz chord players can resist leaving an old chord sequence alone.

So Kyyry's is straightforward (melody notes mostly forming lower chord tones such as root-3-5, maybe 7), while fep's is a more complicated take, making most melody notes into upper extensions (maj7, 9, #11, etc). This is not "better" -that depends on one's preference - just a richer, more detailed arrangement. I think it sounds great, but Kyyry's could be perfectly adequate for many contexts.

Here's three goes at it. First, as simple as I can make it - diatonc major triads only - then a couple of fancier ones: #2 still reasonably classical/straight jazz (mostly); #3 more off the wall, ignoring diatonic implications and just going for surprise cadences and fancy entensions (sky's the limit here) - still with plenty of functional moves though.

(I tried attaching images but the attachment function doesn't seem to be working - anyone else having problems with that?.)

I'm showing 2 beats per bar. Most bars have 2 chords, "-" indicates a chord held for the whole bar.

1.
|A - |A D |A - |A G |
|A D |A G |A G |A D

2.
|D Dmaj9 |C#m7b5 F#7#5 |Bm9 E7 |Em7 A9 |
|Dmaj9 G |Dmaj7 Em7 |F#m7 Bm7 |Em11 A13 |

3.
|Fmaj7 Bb7#11 |A#dim7 Dm/A |G7#11 F#m11 |Fmaj9#11 - |
|B9sus E7 |A6 G7 |E13sus - |F7 F#m7 |

[jster]

That's interesting. Do you know how it's known how to translate that into modern notation? How do we know what pitches (or intervals) the letters referred to? Or indeed the metre?

I have no real knowledge in this area. I think that what we know is via many different little bits and pieces. They might find some flutes that tell them what scale was used at a given place and time. Then join to that 99 other similar disparate facts. My understanding is that the melody is reliable. The meter more flexible. If you want to get serious about it, I think that the single best text is this one:
Amazon.com: Ancient Greek Music (Clarendon Paperbacks) (9780198149750): M. L. West: Books
If you look at the amazon preview, there is some good stuff right there that addresses the sources of our understanding. West says we have 1) some old instruments and depictions of instruments in art, 2) many general references to music throughout ancient literature, and 3) some specialist, i.e. musical theory, texts that have survived including three books of On Harmony by Aristoxenus who disagreed with Pythagoras. Seems Aristoxenus was more about the ear while Pythagoras was more about the math. Evidently they differed on which actual scales to use.

I might read it in the next few years. If I do, I'll re-inflate the thread and give you a better answer.

[fep]

| Bm11 | Bb7#11| Amaj7 | G/A A9 | D DmMaj7 | G7sus G7 | F#m7 E13 | Aadd9 A ||

I couldn't find anything in 6/8 that I liked in BIAB, so I did it the old fashion way. Here's a guitar duet with my harmony for jster's melody.

Harmonizing jster's melody.mp3 - File Shared from Box.net - Free Online File Storage

[brwnhornet59]

That was cool Fep!!!